Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alarson 
A girl saying 'how about we take this back to my room', has a bit of a connotation on it, does it not? It doesnt guarantee anything, or automatically mean consent, but it certainly would cast reasonable doubt against the accusation if the accused said it was consensual. Whether or not it actually happened, you have to prove guilt, and anything that casts reasonable doubt can mean not much of a case.
But, "Hey, bar's closing, you guys want to come up and have a few drinks? I have tequila in my room." has much less connotation. We don't know. "Because she invited" them casting doubt on consent is like saying the gal in Iowa City who gave a ride to the store to a dude and at the end of the ride he reaches over and pulls her hand onto his wang (police report funny) meant something more because she gave him a ride to the store. Not saying specifically that you're wrong, but there isn't near enough information to say you're right.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
DistrictCyclone There is; filing a false police report usually is a crime. The problem with this is that the accuser becomes the accused, which has a chilling effect and would make it even harder for victims to come forward. Most rapes go unreported as is, and even fewer would be if every victim had to be worried about being prosecuted themselves if their attacker somehow evades a conviction.
Oh, I don't know.....I think it's pretty chilling that practically any woman who has a regretful sexual encounter can cry rape and completely destroy an innocent man's life with little to no repercussions. It's happened too many times in the past.
I realize that a male simply defeating a rape charge shouldn't be enough to bring heavy prosecution of the accuser, but if there is a preponderance of evidence in the end that shows the male did nothing wrong, the accuser should face harsh penalties. It's only fair as the accuser would have already brought harsh penalties on an innocent man, as whether he is convicted or not, his friends/family/potential employers would all still wonder about his guilt or innocence. The damage is done immediately when charges are filed.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
DistrictCyclone Yes, that is unrealistic. Not to derail the thread too much, but bstinence-only sex education is widely acknowledged as bad, failed policy; if it hasn't worked for preventing pregnancy and avoiding life-threatening diseases, I doubt the prospect of a false rape accusation is going to make abstinence a viable alternative for most individuals.
And "getting famous" for accusing a high-profile person of rape seems like an odd motivator when the accuser almost always remains anonymous.
You might consider it "unrealistic" for a college athlete to not have sex, and that's fine if that's your opinion, but all I'm saying is that's it's the only way for you to guarantee that you don't end up in Bubu Palo's shoes, that's all.
That's the risk you take. And I will bet you my house that this isn't drilled into the players heads numerous times every year as well. In fact, I know it is. The players are told how they become "targets". Lots of girls on campus want to be with the star athletes, that's just the way it is.
It is ultimately up to them if they want to put themselves at risk or not? According to you it's impossible for them to say no, it's just too "unrealistic". Fine. But then nobody should feel sorry for them if they get accused of rape either. They know the dangers going in, and there's only one way for you to not get yourself in that position, and that is to not have sex at all.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
No one knows any facts and already blaming the woman. Typical.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
carvers4math No one knows any facts and already blaming the woman. Typical.
I'm not blaming the woman at all. But it's nonsense for anyone to think that there are also a lot of false accusations of rape by women. It happens.
Without knowing the facts of any of these cases, who knows what really happened? That will be settled in the courts. But don't kid yourself if you honestly believe every accusation of rape is legit, because they aren't.
In the Texas case, the woman doesn't even seem sure who was in the room and she was drunk as well it sounds like? Which doesn't mean a rape didn't occur of course, but it sure makes it a bit cloudier as to what really happened.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
alarson :rolleyes: only if you automatically assume guilt anytime anyone claims rape.
A girl saying 'how about we take this back to my room', has a bit of a connotation on it, does it not? It doesnt guarantee anything, or automatically mean consent, but it certainly would cast reasonable doubt against the accusation if the accused said it was consensual. Whether or not it actually happened, you have to prove guilt, and anything that casts reasonable doubt can mean not much of a case.
Her inviting them back to her room does not cast reasonable doubt in my mind, even if she invited them back to her room with the intention of having sex with them. We don't know what happened in the room. Something could have happened or the guys could have done something to make her uncomfortable and she changed her mind. Once that happens it's over. Or maybe she just invited them over for a few drinks and that's it. We don't know. And what about the fact that she had bruises on her?
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alarson :rolleyes: only if you automatically assume guilt anytime anyone claims rape.
A girl saying 'how about we take this back to my room', has a bit of a connotation on it, does it not? It doesnt guarantee anything, or automatically mean consent, but it certainly would cast reasonable doubt against the accusation if the accused said it was consensual. Whether or not it actually happened, you have to prove guilt, and anything that casts reasonable doubt can mean not much of a case.
Does the police report say that she invited them back to her room (not that it matters)?
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
ISUAlum2002 Oh, I don't know.....I think it's pretty chilling that practically any woman who has a regretful sexual encounter can cry rape and completely destroy an innocent man's life with little to no repercussions. It's happened too many times in the past.
I realize that a male simply defeating a rape charge shouldn't be enough to bring heavy prosecution of the accuser, but if there is a preponderance of evidence in the end that shows the male did nothing wrong, the accuser should face harsh penalties. It's only fair as the accuser would have already brought harsh penalties on an innocent man, as whether he is convicted or not, his friends/family/potential employers would all still wonder about his guilt or innocence. The damage is done immediately when charges are filed.
How many false accusations are we talking about here? How many of them are there relative to "legitimate" accusations? How many get sniffed out by law enforcement before charges are filed?
Whatever those ratios are, you have to ask whether protecting what is probably relatively few innocent people from false accusations is worth making it more difficult for a likely much larger number of people to come forward when they're raped because they are worried about getting in legal trouble if there is a lack of evidence (something which a rape victim has no expertise or knowledge on, btw).
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
clonedude You might consider it "unrealistic" for a college athlete to not have sex, and that's fine if that's your opinion, but all I'm saying is that's it's the only way for you to guarantee that you don't end up in Bubu Palo's shoes, that's all.
That's the risk you take. And I will bet you my house that this isn't drilled into the players heads numerous times every year as well. In fact, I know it is. The players are told how they become "targets". Lots of girls on campus want to be with the star athletes, that's just the way it is.
It is ultimately up to them if they want to put themselves at risk or not? According to you it's impossible for them to say no, it's just too "unrealistic". Fine. But then nobody should feel sorry for them if they get accused of rape either. They know the dangers going in, and there's only one way for you to not get yourself in that position, and that is to not have sex at all.
And I could avoid stubbing my toes if only I'd sit on my *** all day and never walk. But like saying "just don't have sex", it's a silly, draconian resolution.
Being judicious about who you have sex with is sage advice for several reasons beyond worrying about false rape accusations. Avoiding sex altogether only actually works in fantasy land.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
DistrictCyclone How many false accusations are we talking about here? How many of them are there relative to "legitimate" accusations? How many get sniffed out by law enforcement before charges are filed?
Whatever those ratios are, you have to ask whether protecting what is probably relatively few innocent people from false accusations is worth making it more difficult for a likely much larger number of people to come forward when they're raped because they are worried about getting in legal trouble if there is a lack of evidence (something which a rape victim has no expertise or knowledge on, btw).
I agree, it's a tough situation on both sides of the argument. I don't want women to feel afraid to come forward if they have truly been raped, but on the other hand, if it was totally consensual, then the accused rapist's reputation has forever been tarnished when they have done nothing wrong as well.
It's a terrible situation no matter how you look at it. But regretful sex is not rape. If a women fully consents to having sex with a guy, but then days later regrets doing it... that is not rape. And if they go to a lawyer days afterwards and even asks for their opinion, you can bet your life that the lawyer, 99 times out of 100, will tell the woman to file rape charges. She may not even be interested in doing so, but the lawyer will talk her into it.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
DistrictCyclone And I could avoid stubbing my toes if only I'd sit on my *** all day and never walk. But like saying "just don't have sex", it's a silly, draconian resolution.
Being judicious about who you have sex with is sage advice for several reasons beyond worrying about false rape accusations. Avoiding sex altogether only actually works in fantasy land.
No... avoiding sex altogether works EVERY time, not just in fantasy land. And I don't care if you've had a girlfriend for several years and you've already had sex with her previously... she can still charge you with rape the next time it happens. You can never really trust anyone anymore. It's sad, but it's true.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
Pitt_Clone Her inviting them back to her room does not cast reasonable doubt in my mind, even if she invited them back to her room with the intention of having sex with them. We don't know what happened in the room. Something could have happened or the guys could have done something to make her uncomfortable and she changed her mind. Once that happens it's over. Or maybe she just invited them over for a few drinks and that's it. We don't know. And what about the fact that she had bruises on her?
Maybe not in your mind, but it obviously does in the minds of others which is enough to hang a jury. I don't think anyone here is blaming the victim, just stating that her actions will, rightly or wrongly, create doubt in some people's minds which could make this difficult to prosecute.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
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Originally Posted by
clonedude I agree, it's a tough situation on both sides of the argument. I don't want women to feel afraid to come forward if they have truly been raped, but on the other hand, if it was totally consensual, then the accused rapist's reputation has forever been tarnished when they have done nothing wrong as well.
It's a terrible situation no matter how you look at it. But regretful sex is not rape. If a women fully consents to having sex with a guy, but then days later regrets doing it... that is not rape. And if they go to a lawyer days afterwards and even asks for their opinion, you can bet your life that the lawyer, 99 times out of 100, will tell the woman to file rape charges. She may not even be interested in doing so, but the lawyer will talk her into it.
What's your basis for making such a bold statement? Do you have any knowledge of or experience with this?
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clonedude No... avoiding sex altogether works EVERY time, not just in fantasy land. And I don't care if you've had a girlfriend for several years and you've already had sex with her previously... she can still charge you with rape the next time it happens. You can never really trust anyone anymore. It's sad, but it's true.
Go tell 100 college students to avoid sex for 4 years and see how many actually do it. Or you could perhaps join the rest of us in reality where we don't ignore our biological nature and centuries of evidence.
And my god you sure have a twisted view of humanity...and that is coming from a noted cynic.
Re: 2 Texas Players accused of rape
One of my very best friends, who now lives in Hawaii, was a cab driver in IC. He was my neighbor, and he was involved in a slippery case. He picked up a girl at an apartment complex that my now brother-in-law used to live in, and dropped her off in a complex next to ours in Coralville. She was supposed to be on the road to pick up her brother at the airport in Des Moines. She ran out of gas because she spent too much the night before. Instead of owning her mistake, she made up a rape story. During trial she broke down and admitted she made the whole thing up. During the time between the accusation and trial, the dude lost respect from his family and friends, and had been harassed by local feminist groups, and eventually dropped out of school and left the area. All because he made the poor choice of having consensual sex with the wrong person. His name made it to the paper after his arrest, and it ruined his life in IC. She was never punished for her crime of making a false report.
