OT- Doctors and moral beliefs

[travman23]

I think a lot has to do with the situation I guess? There will always be a doctor that will do what you ask though so in this case it worked out for the woman in the story about the rape.

My personal beliefs are I don't approve of abortions. However, I find myself very conflicted when it comes to pregnancies resulting from a rape. That may be the only situation I might not have issue with it because how do you explain to that child what his/her father did to the mother? It was not a result of that woman's choice to have intercourse it was forced. In all other cases the woman and man shoulder 100% of the responsibility for preventing an unwanted pregnancy and know the risks involved so I feel that those pregnancies wether planned or not is inhumane to terminate. I realize not everyone shares in my views but that is my view on the subject.

[Incyte]

Originally Posted by travman23

I think a lot has to do with the situation I guess? There will always be a doctor that will do what you ask though so in this case it worked out for the woman in the story about the rape.

My personal beliefs are I don't approve of abortions. However, I find myself very conflicted when it comes to pregnancies resulting from a rape. That may be the only situation I might not have issue with it because how do you explain to that child what his/her father did to the mother? It was not a result of that woman's choice to have intercourse it was forced. In all other cases the woman and man shoulder 100% of the responsibility for preventing an unwanted pregnancy and know the risks involved so I feel that those pregnancies wether planned or not is inhumane to terminate. I realize not everyone shares in my views but that is my view on the subject.

Couldn't agree more. I believe some day we will view abortion as a black eye of the western world, much like slavery and refusal of the right to vote to woman.

[cybsball20]

Originally Posted by Incyte

Couldn't agree more. I believe some day we will view abortion as a black eye of the western world, much like slavery and refusal of the right to vote to woman.

All??? I can't say I ever see that day coming... Unless there is a MUCH better form of birth control coming...

[Cyclone62]

Originally Posted by Incyte

Couldn't agree more. I believe some day we will view abortion as a black eye of the western world, much like slavery and refusal of the right to vote to woman.

Yes, because back alley abortions were so great and safe before Roe V Wade...

EDIT: Let me elaborate before everyone takes what I meant the wrong way. I won't ever advocate actually going out there and getting an abortion, but that choice should still be there. If a woman gets unexpectedly pregnant, it's fairly obvious, and often leads to scrutiny and judgment from everyone around them. For the man involved, he can virtually disappear, receive next to zero scrutiny and judgment, because he has no physical signs of anything happening. Our society is still too patriarchical for a woman who becomes pregnant outside of wedlock, and banning abortions would further and digress the advancements we've had thus far against it.

[Incyte]

Originally Posted by Cyclone62

Yes, because back alley abortions were so great and safe before Roe V Wade...

EDIT: Let me elaborate before everyone takes what I meant the wrong way. I won't ever advocate actually going out there and getting an abortion, but that choice should still be there. If a woman gets unexpectedly pregnant, it's fairly obvious, and often leads to scrutiny and judgment from everyone around them. For the man involved, he can virtually disappear, receive next to zero scrutiny and judgment, because he has no physical signs of anything happening. Our society is still too patriarchical for a woman who becomes pregnant outside of wedlock, and banning abortions would further and digress the advancements we've had thus far against it.

I agree with much of your "Edit" in that society lets men off the hook way to easy. Men should carry the same burdens as women in rearing children. That being said, I respectfully don't believe our double-standard justifies abortion.

[everyyard]

agree with your edit as well. IF we completely outlaw abortions we might as well put vails on our women because the ability to control your reproduction is a major right of freedom for western women.

[Incyte]

Originally Posted by everyyard

agree with your edit as well. IF we completely outlaw abortions we might as well put vails on our women because the ability to control your reproduction is a major right of freedom for western women.

I wasn't aware that women where vails in Ireland or Northern Ireland.

[Cyclone62]

Originally Posted by Incyte

I agree with much of your "Edit" in that society lets men off the hook way to easy. Men should carry the same burdens as women in rearing children. That being said, I respectfully don't believe our double-standard justifies abortion.

I just think the choice should be there. The double-standard doesn't really justify allowing them, but it has allowed women to not be forced out of the home by family, and we don't have "honor murders" that some countries that have abortion bans do. I won't ever encourage someone to get one, and would rather that they didn't, but in the end, I think that option should be there because those who want to get one, will whether it's legal or not. If it's legal, it's safer for the mother.

[herbiedoobie]

Originally Posted by Cyclone62

Yes, because back alley abortions were so great and safe before Roe V Wade...

EDIT: Let me elaborate before everyone takes what I meant the wrong way. I won't ever advocate actually going out there and getting an abortion, but that choice should still be there. If a woman gets unexpectedly pregnant, it's fairly obvious, and often leads to scrutiny and judgment from everyone around them. For the man involved, he can virtually disappear, receive next to zero scrutiny and judgment, because he has no physical signs of anything happening. Our society is still too patriarchical for a woman who becomes pregnant outside of wedlock, and banning abortions would further and digress the advancements we've had thus far against it.

Abortion causes more injuries to women now, than before Roe V. Wade, just out of volume of cases done. The legendary "back alley abortion" was conducted in very similar conditions/facilities as they are today. (Basically an outpatient procedure.) If you think abortion is a completely safe and harmless to the woman, think again. Complications can and do follow legal abortions.

Abortion following rape is very similar to shooting the wounded on the battlefield, imo. You can certainly argue for it, (ends suffering) but notice that folks mention keeping or killing the child as the only two options. Would an adopted child of rape be in that bad of a position? You certainly would be forcing a burden on the victim, but our justice system does that all the time, anyway.

And last time I checked, other than in cases of rape, women still have reproductive choice(s). Engaging in risky behavior has consequences. You can argue that women should have the right to choose abortion, because it is their body, and that a fetus is just tissue mass, but then, as a man, I should have a right to rape, using the same tortuous and corrupt (il)logic. After all, it is MY body, and who are you to say what I do with it? And, using historic (and if you include the Middle East, current) examples, I could argue that women are just tissue mass.

(I do not agree with that argument, but sometimes it is useful to take an argument to a ridiculous end in order to make a point.)

I'm a pre-Roe v. Wade adopted child. My mother was impregnated by parties unknown and she was taken to a "clinic" where she stayed for a time, returning to her family and her friends after I was born and adopted. There was a certain amount of disgrace involved with that at the time, which served the purpose of deterring others from out-of-wedlock births.

Does anyone else remember the fuss a few years ago, when the government tried to force abortion clinics to counsel patients on adoption? It seems these (ahem) "doctors" didn't want adoption to horn in on their "racket." I wonder if those who were all upset about this doctor not advising this woman of her other "options" are also upset about abortion clinics/doctors not counselling women on her OTHER choices that don't involve killing their baby.

[herbiedoobie]

Originally Posted by Cyclone62

I just think the choice should be there. The double-standard doesn't really justify allowing them, but it has allowed women to not be forced out of the home by family, and we don't have "honor murders" that some countries that have abortion bans do. I won't ever encourage someone to get one, and would rather that they didn't, but in the end, I think that option should be there because those who want to get one, will whether it's legal or not. If it's legal, it's safer for the mother.

Specious argument. Our society does not, and never had "honor killings". To argue that abortion bans = honor killings is dishonest.

Also, see my longer post. Legal does not necessarily mean safer.