What is Obama thinking?

**CloneAggie** · 08-02-2007, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneworld

Sounds A LOT like what Bush is doing right now. Except he gets raked over the coals for it.

Or maybe he's getting "raked over the coals" for making unpopular decisions that are making us worse off.

**cycloneworld** · 08-02-2007, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by CloneAggie

Or maybe he's getting "raked over the coals" for making unpopular decisions that are making us worse off.

That's your opinion...one that for some reason seems to be a popular fighting point between democrats and republicans. I don't think he thinks he is making decisions that are hurting our country.

**CloneAggie** · 08-02-2007, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneworld

That's your opinion...one that for some reason seems to be a popular fighting point between democrats and republicans. I don't think he thinks he is making decisions that are hurting our country.

Of course it is my opinion. Just like your point that I responded to was your opinion.

**isucyfan** · 08-02-2007, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

A more important observation - the war was declared before Bush's second term. If this was such an unjustified, unpopular war, why did Bush win reelection, with more votes the second time around than the first?

I think it was fear. People thought that Bush would keep them safe, and the administration trotted out an Orange/Red Alert every once and a while before the election to keep people thinking the bad Arabs were hiding in their closet. Where are these alerts now?

Also, Rove is genius in being able to discredit Kerry, an actual veteran, to the great benefit of Bush, who didn't even protect Alabama while he was in the guard there. How they pulled that one off boggles my mind.

I can go on...but also Bush won because of guns, gays, and God.

**Incyte** · 08-02-2007, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by isucyfan

I think it was fear. People thought that Bush would keep them safe, and the administration trotted out an Orange/Red Alert every once and a while before the election to keep people thinking the bad Arabs were hiding in their closet. Where are these alerts now?

Also, Rove is genius in being able to discredit Kerry, an actual veteran, to the great benefit of Bush, who didn't even protect Alabama while he was in the guard there. How they pulled that one off boggles my mind.

I can go on...but also Bush won because of guns, gays, and God.

And because he ran an effective campaign and John Kerry was a terrible candidate.

**jdoggivjc** · 08-02-2007, 02:11 PM

I'm all for First Amendment rights to protest, but one of the last things I want is a guy who protests by chucking his military medals at the White House to protest Vietnam (I believe that's what it was for). To me that means he takes no pride in our soldiers serving overseas and his selfish ambitions take precedent over honors that his government had bestowed upon him. Furthermore, I believe when this story hit he lost respect from a great deal of veterans and those currently in the military. I think what's worse is how he played it off as it was no big deal when it was a big deal to many Americans.

**Clone9** · 08-02-2007, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

DING DING DING!!! Anyone who thinks we've got it bad right now needs to imagine just how bad it could be if Kerry, or even Gore, were running the country right now.

John Kerry was a very unelectable candidate. But I truly believe that our country would be in a better place if he had been elected. Although he would have had to spend most of his time digging out of Bush's holes.

If Gore would have won (or for that matter, if someone other than Bush would have won the Republican nomination and then won the presidency) in 2000 I really believe that our country would be in a MUCH better place. I'm not as much anti-Republican as I am anti-Bush.

**jdoggivjc** · 08-02-2007, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Clone9

If Gore would have won (or for that matter, if someone other than Bush would have won the Republican nomination and then won the presidency) in 2000 I really believe that our country would be in a MUCH better place. I'm not as much anti-Republican as I am anti-Bush.

Please. The way Gore publicly sulked and gained 100 pounds after he lost his court case to become President tells me he doesn't have the character to lead this nation, and I question what would have happened to this nation if Gore had to deal with the days directly after 9/11. From what we've had to go on he would have retreated to the mountains of Tennessee for 6 months and ate nothing but Twinkies.

**Incyte** · 08-02-2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Clone9

John Kerry was a very unelectable candidate. But I truly believe that our country would be in a better place if he had been elected. Although he would have had to spend most of his time digging out of Bush's holes.

If Gore would have won (or for that matter, if someone other than Bush would have won the Republican nomination and then won the presidency) in 2000 I really believe that our country would be in a MUCH better place. I'm not as much anti-Republican as I am anti-Bush.

It's all hindsight. We have no way of knowing. To guess what would have happened differently over an 8 year time span is an exercise in futility.

Maybe if another person was president we get attacked a 2nd time from al queda. Maybe if another person was president 9/11 never happens. Maybe if another person was president Sadam would have completed his nuclear program by now or procured nuclear material. Who knows.

**isucyfan** · 08-02-2007, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Please. The way Gore publicly sulked and gained 100 pounds after he lost his court case to become President tells me he doesn't have the character to lead this nation, and I question what would have happened to this nation if Gore had to deal with the days directly after 9/11. From what we've had to go on he would have retreated to the mountains of Tennessee for 6 months and ate nothing but Twinkies.

He may or may not have had the character, but it would have prevented a character (Bush) from "leading" the country. I bet we wouldn't be mired in Iraq. 9/11 was catastrophic, don't get me wrong, but conservatively, there have been 500,000 war-related civilian deaths in Iraq, which equates to many Iraqi 9/11s.

**247cy** · 08-02-2007, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by isucyfan

He may or may not have had the character, but it would have prevented a character (Bush) from "leading" the country. I bet we wouldn't be mired in Iraq. 9/11 was catastrophic, don't get me wrong, but conservatively, there have been 500,000 war-related civilian deaths in Iraq, which equates to many Iraqi 9/11s.

Sounds like you have a plan to fight a nation-less enemy whose goal is jihad, or in other words, to see us all dead. Please share it with us.

While you're at it, please tell me how the members of the house, senate, and the various intelligence agencies get a free pass, but the president does not.

**Cyclonepride** · 08-02-2007, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by 247cy

Sounds like you have a plan to fight a nation-less enemy whose goal is jihad, or in other words, to see us all dead. Please share it with us.

While you're at it, please tell me how the members of the house, senate, and the various intelligence agencies get a free pass, but the president does not.

One of my favorite movie quotes applies pretty well here. From The Rising Sun......Sean Connery

"The Japanese have a saying, "fix the problem, not the blame." Find out what's f***ed up and fix it. Nobody gets blamed. We're always after who f***ed up. Their way is better."

There is one organization ultimately to blame. We should spend our time and energy removing them from the earth, one by one.

**joepublic** · 08-02-2007, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclonepride

There is one organization ultimately to blame. We should spend our time and energy removing them from the earth, one by one.

Who is that? The DNC?

**Cyclonepride** · 08-02-2007, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by joepublic

Who is that? The DNC?

Man, you really know how to read between the lines

**isucyfan** · 08-02-2007, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by 247cy

Sounds like you have a plan to fight a nation-less enemy whose goal is jihad, or in other words, to see us all dead. Please share it with us.

While you're at it, please tell me how the members of the house, senate, and the various intelligence agencies get a free pass, but the president does not.

Since you asked...

I don't think I would have invaded at all. You can't tell me there wasn't a better way to go about managing Saddam. I would have no problem with the pres if we were mired in Afghanistan, where people who attacked us actually are. Instead of cutting down the wasps' nest, all we are doing by invading and occupying Iraq is poking the nest with a stick...repeatedly.

As far as the house, senate, and other agencies...they need to be held accountable, too. Instead of doing this, Bush gave Tenet a medal of honor. Can you say "crony"? I'm not saying that the Dems are great, or blameless, I just can't see how it can get any worse than it is now. I hope the winds of change that blew through during the midterms continues in '08.

Did I get your vote?

If you don't want to reply, I heard the term "Executive Privilege" gets you out of a lot.