Strib article on bridge collapse, recovery

jdoggivjc · 08-02-2007, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Incyte

No way did Bush do this. It was global warming.

But see, global warming is Bush's fault, therefore if global warming is at fault, then really Bush is at fault!

throwittoblythe · 08-02-2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

It comes down to priorities. What has the most glitter? What will give instant gratification to the taxpayer? Will it be a new stadium for Vikings/Twins/Gophers, or replacing the 40-year old structurally deficient I-35 bridge? Well guess what...major infrastucture always gets rebuilt. The only question is under what terms and conditions the rebuilding will get done. Unfortunately, nowadays, it seems more and more that it takes loss of life for infrastructure to get updated.

It's the same everywhere. There are roads in east Arlington with potholes that can swallow up my F-250. There are dangerous, dinky little narrow county roads (no better than section lines really) with no shoulders and deep ditches that have been paved over "as is" and turned into "major" streets connecting subdivisions. People have already died in accidents on those roads. There is no money to fix those dangerous roads, but we somehow found almost $400 million to help Jerry Jones build a new stadium for the Cowboys.

It really comes down to us, the voters. If we got sufficiently involved and demanded that things get fixed before people got killed, they would get fixed.

You're preaching to the choir man! I agree 100% with you. The worst part is that in 3 or 4 months, the next tragedy will come along and most will forget about our deteriorating infrastructure and we will be back to square 1.

The_Architect · 08-02-2007, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneworld

For those South Park fans...It was probably Manbearpig's doing.

nice.

EggMcClone · 08-02-2007, 02:31 PM

Here's a really good column on the failing infrastructure. I'll quote part of it.
Nick Coleman: Public anger will follow our sorrow

For half a dozen years, the motto of state government and particularly that of Gov. Tim Pawlenty has been No New Taxes. It's been popular with a lot of voters and it has mostly prevailed. So much so that Pawlenty vetoed a 5-cent gas tax increase - the first in 20 years - last spring and millions were lost that might have gone to road repair. And yes, it would have fallen even if the gas tax had gone through, because we are years behind a dangerous curve when it comes to the replacement of infrastructure that everyone but wingnuts in coonskin caps agree is one of the basic duties of government.

I'm not just pointing fingers at Pawlenty. The outrage here is not partisan. It is general.

Both political parties have tried to govern on the cheap, and both have dithered and dallied and spent public wealth on stadiums while scrimping on the basics.

How ironic is it that tonight's scheduled groundbreaking for a new Twins ballpark has been postponed? Even the stadium barkers realize it is in poor taste to celebrate the spending of half a billion on ballparks when your bridges are falling down. Perhaps this is a sign of shame. If so, it is welcome. Shame is overdue.

At the federal level, the parsimony is worse, and so is the negligence. A trillion spent in Iraq, while schools crumble, there aren't enough cops on the street and bridges decay while our leaders cross their fingers and ignore the rising chances of disaster.

clones_jer · 08-02-2007, 02:41 PM

"It's been popular with a lot of voters and it has mostly prevailed. So much so that Pawlenty vetoed a 5-cent gas tax increase - the first in 20 years - last spring and millions were lost that might have gone to road repair. And yes, it would have fallen even if the gas tax had gone through, because we are years behind a dangerous curve when it comes to the replacement of infrastructure that everyone but wingnuts in coonskin caps agree is one of the basic duties of government."

I think the key word there is "might". More taxes do not inherently mean more road money, in fact I highly doubt the new "winnings" would have translated into much more road work. Policitians are not good at spending new money on "boring" budgets like roads.

jdoggivjc · 08-02-2007, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by clones_jer

"It's been popular with a lot of voters and it has mostly prevailed. So much so that Pawlenty vetoed a 5-cent gas tax increase - the first in 20 years - last spring and millions were lost that might have gone to road repair. And yes, it would have fallen even if the gas tax had gone through, because we are years behind a dangerous curve when it comes to the replacement of infrastructure that everyone but wingnuts in coonskin caps agree is one of the basic duties of government."

I think the key word there is "might". More taxes do not inherently mean more road money, in fact I highly doubt the new "winnings" would have translated into much more road work. Policitians are not good at spending new money on "boring" budgets like roads.

It more likely would have gone into someone's pocket,whether it be those abusing the welfare system or a nice pay raise for politicians

jbhtexas · 08-02-2007, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

It more likely would have gone into someone's pocket,whether it be those abusing the welfare system or a nice pay raise for politicians

Only if the citizenry looks the other way and allows it to go to those places...

By default, ALL taxes end up in somebody's pocket. It's our job to elect people who will make sure that the tax money ends up in the "pocket" for which it was intended, or in the "pocket" that will put it to best use.

Like I said earlier...we will fix our roads and bridges, and there will be taxes assessed to do it. It's just a matter of "when"...

As far as local government goes, my first suggestion would be to stop throwing money into publically financed stadiums for privately owned sports teams...

cytech · 08-02-2007, 03:14 PM

Another thing to note about road repair, is that weather really takes a toll on roads in the midwest. Ever notice how much nicer roads are in area's that don't have climate shifts like iowa or minn. I wonder if federal dollars for road repair take this into mind. I would guess they don't because those states where the climate doesn't effect the roads as much generally have alot more people living there.

jdoggivjc · 08-02-2007, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by cytech

Another thing to note about road repair, is that weather really takes a toll on roads in the midwest. Ever notice how much nicer roads are in area's that don't have climate shifts like iowa or minn. I wonder if federal dollars for road repair take this into mind. I would guess they don't because those states where the climate doesn't effect the roads as much generally have alot more people living there.

That's debatable - I was in Dallas last week and I'd say, at least most of I-80 is maintained much better than I-35W or I-35E were maintained down there. I also knew a guy from North Carolina who was very impressed with the roads in Davenport compared to the roads that he found in North Carolina and the south in general. I think if in the south they take the time and build the roads right they last practically forever, but he said that throwing asphalt directly on top of the ground is acceptable down there (it was sarcastic, but he was saying that generally southerners don't take care of their roads either).

frontrangeclone · 08-02-2007, 03:31 PM

at least Iraq's infrastructure is improving......

Incyte · 08-02-2007, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by frontrangeclone

at least Iraq's infrastructure is improving......

Somebody should pay dmclone his $10 now.

Cyclonepride · 08-02-2007, 03:47 PM

Our government exists for only a few reasons. Infrastructure is one of them. If our government was spending it's money on things that it is allowed to do, then there would be plenty of money for things like this.

ISU_phoria · 08-02-2007, 03:51 PM

Just to clarify things a little; while the bridge was declared "deficient" in the last inspection, it was also deemed "safe" and not due for replacement until the year 2020.

I live in MN, work in downtown Minneapolis, & use that bridge regularly. Twice during the day it collapsed.

While the gas tax was vetoed by Pawlenty, the bill stated specifically that all funds must be used on roadway infastructure. However, I opposed it because it allowed for taxes collected in rural MN to be used on the roads in the Twin Cities. I would have been the beneficiary, but I just don't think it's right to have my folks who live on a farm, pay for roads they'll never use. If the money were to stay in the county where it originated, I think more people would be on board.

I read somewhere that people in the Twin Cities will end up spending more on gas because of sitting in traffic than they would have on the gas tax, which would have eased that congestion.

isugcs · 08-02-2007, 03:56 PM

Congressional investigation spearheaded by Harry Ried into what Bush knew and when he knew it in 3... 2... 1...

jdoggivjc · 08-02-2007, 04:01 PM

Rosie O'Donnell's opinion on what happened - Bush secretly had the latest generation of a silenced C-4 attached to the bridge and had it blown. I mean, we all know that it was Bush that brought down the towers and not Al Qaida...