Barry Bonds

**ISUFan22** · 08-08-2007, 01:53 PM

First, I'm not a baseball fan - I am however a sports fan. And this is bigger than just a baseball achievement - it's a sports milestone.

So, I really don't "celebrate" guys that are in the baseball HOF. And...why does it matter? All I keep seeing/reading from the guys in the Bonds corner is the diverting of the topic at hand. We're talking about Barry Bond here - not Ruth or any of these other guys. It appears I made a silly comparison toward Rose and I apologize for that. The fact still remains baseball is very inconsistent with how they handle their problem children.

This should have been a huge deal for the sport - bigger than the Sosa/McGwuire home run race was. And even not being a fan, I was into it hardcore, because it was so exciting (then fastforward to learning these two likely juiced up, corked bats, etc).

Sadly, Barry cheated his way to this accomplishment*, making something very special into something very hollow and tainted.

**TxCycloneFan** · 08-08-2007, 01:56 PM

***n/m***

**Knownothing** · 08-08-2007, 01:57 PM

No betting on baseball was the rule in MLB when Pete Rose did it. There was no rule against steroids when Bonds allegedly began dabbling

I actually agree with this. There was no rule against Steroids. I hate Bonds but he broke no rules. Also everyone cheats. It's just how bad you cheat and if you get caught.

**Dormeezy** · 08-08-2007, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Sorry, but I'm not going to "just get used to it".

I love the hypocrisy in baseball. Pete Rose still "shunned" (insert photo of Dwight Schrute shunning a co-worker) and Barry is still slammin' home runs.

The problem is the issue of steroids is just too big. Tons of players used them and we seem to just single out Bonds. If we are going to dismiss Bonds' HR totals, then we must dismiss the stats of all players who ever took a performance enhancing drug.

You see, this issue is not as cut and dried as you'd like to make it out to be. This is impossible. There is no was to tell for sure who did what, and who was clean and who wasn't.

The fact is, steroids were not against baseball's rules until just recently, so in the literal sense, Bonds didn't cheat. Every generation of baseball players has tried to get an edge - players used to pop greenies all the time. Pitchers would scuff baseballs to get a better break. Players would cork their bats!

You see, as clean as we would like the game to be, history tells us that it simply is not. As the old addage goes, it's only cheating if you get caught. If we dismiss Bonds' achievements, then in the same right practically all the record books must be whiped clean.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Bonds fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he is the all-time HR leader, plain and simple.

**mwitt** · 08-08-2007, 01:59 PM

For those baseball fans out there, how do you feel about when pitchers doctor a baseball in the way Gaylord Perry did?

For whatever reason, that doesn't bother me at all, but steroid use does. Yet they're both cheating. I can't put my finger on why.

**brianhos** · 08-08-2007, 02:00 PM

This is a lot like Lance, there are many that think he cheated because you just cannot be as successful as either one of these two without cheating. But you know what, neither of them have been proven guilty. So by assuming guilt, we are all doing an injustice to this country. I think he did take HGH, but unless someone can prove it, I will celebrate his triumph.

**mwitt** · 08-08-2007, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Knownothing

I actually agree with this. There was no rule against Steroids. I hate Bonds but he broke no rules. Also everyone cheats. It's just how bad you cheat and if you get caught.

I don't like using that as an excuse though. Baseball may have not had a written rule against steroids, but considering anabolic steroids are illegal in this country, doesn't that count for something?

Baseball's rulebook probably doesn't prohibit murder, but wouldn't they care if a player of theirs went and shot someone?

**Mr Janny** · 08-08-2007, 02:01 PM

22 do you still celebrate those in the Hall of Fame such as Babe Ruth and Gaylord Perry? Neither of these guys are good roll models either. Babe Ruth was one of the biggest drunk womanizer's ever and Gaylord Perry is an admitted cheater to the game of baseball. Both guys are in the Hall and both are celebrated by almost everyone. Now don't get me wrong I don't feel Barry is a good roll model but I don't feel as though we should be hanging the guy when we celebrate others from the game that have done arguably much worse things than he has. I really don't care about Barry but he his the new homerun champ and a very good baseball player.

Kudos. Couldn't agree with you more. This is an accomplishment no matter how you look at it. Is he a cheater? Probably. Is there proof? No, not yet. Until there is unquestionable evidence that he knowingly did it, or he admits it himself, then this record has stand without asterisk.

**ISUFan22** · 08-08-2007, 02:05 PM

Great, so since "everyone is doing it", it's ok? That does seem to be Selig's stance. He did only institute a policy against steroids once Congress got involved.

I'm all for dismissing achievements of those caught. Some of you say, "we have no idea who did and didn't, so how can we do anything". Well, deal with the ones you catch, for starters.

If this was the policy around the world, not doing anything because you can't catch 'em all - we'd have a world filled with cheaters, thieves, liars, etc.

I don't care what Bonds is today. He cheated. The fans, his fellow baseball players, the game of baseball and sports in general. He cheated all of 'em.

Frankly I am continually amazed at how OK this is to so many people.

Originally Posted by mwitt

I don't like using that as an excuse though. Baseball may have not had a written rule against steroids, but considering anabolic steroids are illegal in this country, doesn't that count for something?

Baseball's rulebook probably doesn't prohibit murder, but wouldn't they care if a player of theirs went and shot someone?

Agreed.

**Knownothing** · 08-08-2007, 02:07 PM

I don't like using that as an excuse though. Baseball may have not had a written rule against steroids, but considering anabolic steroids are illegal in this country, doesn't that count for something?

They call them World Champions. Well Steroids are not illegal all over the world. So what if Say Bonds did Steroids in Mexico where they are not illegal. Then he would not have done anything illegal and nothing against the rules. Remember what is illegal in the U.S. is not always illegal everywhere. So Bonds may have not broken any rules and or any Laws at the same time. So is it cheating NO. I still hate bonds and wish he would never had broke the record. I also know I am stretching on using steroids in other country's. However I did it to illistrate my point.

**cybsball20** · 08-08-2007, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Great, so since "everyone is doing it", it's ok? That does seem to be Selig's stance. He did only institute a policy against steroids once Congress got involved.

I'm all for dismissing achievements of those caught. Some of you say, "we have no idea who did and didn't, so how can we do anything". Well, deal with the ones you catch, for starters.

If this was the policy around the world, not doing anything because you can't catch 'em all - we'd have a world filled with cheaters, thieves, liars, etc.

I don't care what Bonds is today. He cheated. The fans, his fellow baseball players, the game of baseball and sports in general. He cheated all of 'em.

Frankly I am continually amazed at how OK this is to so many people.

Agreed.

I'm curious, do you think Robertson and Eilers are the only ISU athletes to have used Steroids or the only ones who got caught?

**ISUFan22** · 08-08-2007, 02:09 PM

For the "he's still innocent" crowd.

I assume none of you have ever said or thought "O.J. is guilty", right? Because that man had his day in court and most people I know still think he did it. He lost a lawsuit over the case, just didn't lose where it counts.

The various systems of proving guilt are flawed just like anything else. Guilty people walk free every day - especially those with money and power. That certainly won't stop me or many others for speaking up against them.

Bonds is nothing more than a very good baseball player that cheated to become great and break the most respected record in the sport.

**SuperCy** · 08-08-2007, 02:12 PM

What about the fact that Bud Selig and everybody else turned a blind eye when Sosa and Mac had their run at the single season record? Two perceived "good guys," so nothing was ever really said about it. Big Mac using Andro caused the biggest uproar. That's not even illegal. Go to GNC and check it out. Remember, this was before Sammy forgot how to speak English at the Congressional Hearings.

Now we have a guy that, by his own doing, nobody likes. Baseball is all over him like flies on .......

Bud Selig takes a step back and distances himself from the whole thing.

You can't have it both ways. Either it's good for the game and all three men should be applauded or it's bad for the game and all should be condemmed. Even 9 years after the fact you still hear how Sosa and Mac "saved" baseball after the strike. Why were they the saviors when Bonds is the villian?

Just on a side note. I am and always have been a Pirates fan. That being said, I have HATED Bonds since the day he left Pittsburgh. If he had tripped over third base and ripped up his knee on homer 754, that would have been alright by me.

**mwitt** · 08-08-2007, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Bonds is nothing more than a very good baseball player that cheated to become great and break the most respected record in the sport.

He was great before he started cheating, if The Game of Shadows is to believed.

**Knownothing** · 08-08-2007, 02:19 PM

ISUfan22,

I would go ahead and jump off your moral high horse for now. You root for the Clones who have had many druggies and cheats playing for them. Eilers, Robo, and Barryman to name a few. You root for all of them. You might want to pick up a sport like Tennis where you can follow one guy at a time that you know is clean. Otherwise you are rooting for the same people you are bringing down right now.