Where did anyone take us (football)?

**alaskaguy** · 08-12-2007, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by Clone_12

Just wondering here...if I can get an answer instead of a 5 paragraph response of excuses on what coach has done more than any other for the football program in the last two decades?...I guess McCarney did nothing but spin facts to make himself look better in his time for ISU, but yet, when asked who has done the most for ISU since the 70's, everyone's answer is either McCarney, or a bunch of excuses and no answer.

The bar for the last two decades couldn't have been set much lower so even an answer of McCarney doesn't mean much.

**Clone_12** · 08-12-2007, 02:49 AM

Still no reponse I guess, although I guess three paragrahps of excuses and a supposive man crush I have...McCarney definately had a bigger budget to work with, but it was still 10th-12th in the conference the whole time he coached here...btw, this has been the whole point of my posts defending McCarney is that in the last 25 years, nobody has done more than him, and all I get for my point is excuses and personal insults...still waiting for an actual answer to my original question if anyone has anything better than personal insults or sarcastic garbage to respond with.

**Clone_12** · 08-12-2007, 02:56 AM

Oh btw, Darts...I also find it ironic that you rip on McCarney for being the "king of spin"...yet everytime anyone brings up anything he did, that hasn't been done before, you make continuous excuses for why it isn't a big deal, and make excuses for the coaches before him...I could say maybe you have a mancrush on Walden, or maybe you have some serious personal issues with McCarney to follow that, but that has nothing to do with football so I won't do the same thing you do.

**Cyclone62** · 08-12-2007, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Clone_12

Still no reponse I guess, although I guess three paragrahps of excuses and a supposive man crush I have...McCarney definately had a bigger budget to work with, but it was still 10th-12th in the conference the whole time he coached here...btw, this has been the whole point of my posts defending McCarney is that in the last 25 years, nobody has done more than him, and all I get for my point is excuses and personal insults...still waiting for an actual answer to my original question if anyone has anything better than personal insults or sarcastic garbage to respond with.

I'm trying to understand what you want people to say. Is it that he didn't do anything? Or that he changed ISU football forever? I don't think he did either one. Yes, he increased the budget, he also gave us our first bowl victory, and 5 bowls in 6 years. What does that mean though? He still spun things to make himself look fabulous, when he was a mediocre coach IMO. When he talked to the team before the UNI game, he said something along the lines that he'd be disappointed if we didn't win by 2 TD's, then in the press conference following the game, he said it was the best UNI team he had ever faced. McCarney did something for ISU, but limiting expectations, as well as making himself look good were two of them; two of the big ones. He just peed the conference schedule down his leg, and played the "needing better facilities" card too much.

**Clone_12** · 08-12-2007, 03:54 AM

Cyclone62....have you read my previous posts???...Who has done more in the last 25 years??? That is why I appreciate him. PS...you said, yes he had winning records 5 out of 6 years...who else has done that??? And don't try to bring up the "watered down schedule" point, because before McCarney we still played a very weak nonconference schedule...and we lost to the "mediocre" teams we played in conferece...at no point in my defense for McCarney have I received an answer for my question on who has done more than him in the last quarter-century....all I have gotten is excuses and personal attacks...still waiting for answers guys...btw, I still agree it was time for a change and I am very excited about Chizik and the future.

**Cyclone62** · 08-12-2007, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by Clone_12

Cyclone62....have you read my previous posts???...Who has done more in the last 25 years??? That is why I appreciate him. PS...you said, yes he had winning records 5 out of 6 years...who else has done that??? And don't try to bring up the "watered down schedule" point, because before McCarney we still played a very weak nonconference schedule...and we lost to the "mediocre" teams we played in conferece...at no point in my defense for McCarney have I received an answer for my question on who has done more than him in the last quarter-century....all I have gotten is excuses and personal attacks...still waiting for answers guys...btw, I still agree it was time for a change and I am very excited about Chizik and the future.

Yes, I have read your previous posts, and since I wasn't even alive for more than six years before DMac took helm, I can't answer your question. Yes, I agreed that he did things for ISU, but also asked what that really meant in the scheme of things. I know he complained about the budget, as he should have, but he also tried to spin things in his favor. Getting to the Houston Bowl, and peeing the Big 12 Championship down your leg two years in a row, as well as the Humanitarian Bowl season is nothing to hang a hat on. Maybe he has done "the most" for ISU in the past 25 years, but that doesn't mean a whole helluva lot with how crappy we've been in that time period. I mean, if ISU was truly relevant because of Danny, we wouldn't finish 4-4 in the conference. You'll probably claim this as an "excuse" but it's merely pointing out facts, and saying that he did SOME things for ISU athletics, but was a cancer in the end.

We should have two North titles, but instead we have zero.

**Clone_12** · 08-12-2007, 04:25 AM

62...I appreciate you honest post and I can definately respect your view on things...but my whole point on sticking up for McCarney is the fact that in the last QUARTER-,CENTURY nobody has even came close to doing what he has done...has he underacieved at times???...Yes...but he has also got the program to the point where success is expected...that is the whole point I've made in defending McCarney. (no, I don't think he's a good gameday coach, but show me someone who has done more in the last quarter-century without personal insults...).

**Cyclone62** · 08-12-2007, 04:36 AM

but he has also got the program to the point where success is expected..

Alright, I thought this would come up actually. We do expect bigger and better things from the DMac era, but as he told us we can get there, he also downplayed his deficiencies. In the end, I think he was a wash as he tried to tell us to expect achievement, as well as playing the "little brother" card for beating Iowa. He was a decent/good coach, and showed up at the right time for ISU athletics. However, I think he should have been under more scrutiny than he was after the Humanitarian Bowl, IMO.

I was a big Mac supporter until I heard what my buddies on the team told me about his quick switches on opponents after gameday.

**Clone_12** · 08-12-2007, 04:44 AM

"showed up at the right time"...62, I can appreciate your points against McCarney...I think he was a bad gameday coach and I think that is why we lost a large portion of the tight games we were in, in the fourth quarter...but the only reason we ever got to the point that we were in those situations is that McCarney was a good recruiter, and had a solid judgement of talent...no, he wasn't a gameday coach, but he did a great job of evaluating talent, and he DID bring ISU to a point where 5-7 was bad...(and yes I do realize he went 4-8 his last year...that's why he is gone, and I'm glad Chizek is here).

**Cyclone62** · 08-12-2007, 04:59 AM

I think he was a bad gameday coach and I think that is why we lost a large portion of the tight games we were in, in the fourth quarter...

In realitym that's why I'm glad that he's gone. Those 4th quarter losses were too much to weasel hs way out of. The only way to say this is that DMac would have settled for the loss against Baylor or CU, and Chizik appears to have the stance that going 7-5 isn't good enough. From what players have said, he takes the ENTIRE season seriously, whereas DMac concentrated on Iowa. *

**Clone_12** · 08-12-2007, 05:06 AM

I agree with most of your posts 62...but I know for a fact McCarney didn't just take the Iowa game seriously...(although it did appear that way during a couple of our winning seaons)....McCarney improved the talent level at ISU to places it hasn't been since the 70's, and got the program to the point where we expect to win...that is why I appreciate the job he did...(and no he did not ever have a big budget to work with, and yes he did improve the talent level of the team dramatically even with his last 4-8 team).

**hoosman** · 08-12-2007, 10:19 AM

I know this wasn't intentional, but barely beating the creampuffs like Illinois State, and then beating EIU was so gratifying. It made them look very overrated. I also will never forget the big second half comeback victory over EIU. Dan's biggest claim to fame is beating the smuckeyes and any card carrying Cyclone has got to appreciate that.

Yes he blew it against Kansas and Missouri, and barely won too many easy games. Yes the coaching change was a good thing; but we should be try to be happy with our past, present, and future.

It is hard for me to erase bad memories and hang on to good ones, but I do try.

**Steve** · 08-12-2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Clone_12

but the only reason we ever got to the point that we were in those situations is that McCarney was a good recruiter, and had a solid judgement of talent...no, he wasn't a gameday coach, but he did a great job of evaluating talent.

Whoa Nellie.......I embrace and cheer for anyone wearing Cardinal & Gold and appreciate that they choose to attend ISU. That said, let's eliminate the myth once and for all that we have had the talent but always came up short due to coaching or schemes. The facts scream otherwise. Sure we have had many good players as well as a few great players, but so did everyone else that we played in the conference. Say what you want about rankings & recruiting gurus, but most looking at our recruiting from the outside have not been very impressed.

For a more objective look, check the link from 2005 showing Big 12 players in NFL camps. It aint pretty. ISU came in dead last with less than 20% of the numbers that a couple of other schools churned out. I have to believe that everyone can acknowledge that Dan's classes have had way too many busts. Too many guys who other schools passed on because of concerns such as character, speed, size, academics, etc. A few risks panned out and more than a few solid recruits choose ISU for a variety of legitimate reasons. Mac simply never had enough to dominate weaker opponents or give top contenders all that they could handle.

Texas A&M Athletics A&M Leads Big 12 with 42 Players on NFL Training Camp Rosters

**brianhos** · 08-12-2007, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by TFEUXCAKS

Anyway, about football. I think the best years for ISU football was the Majors and Bruce era. Bruce was good for a while because he had Majors' players. I only remember one year when ISU was ranked in the top 20 in the final poll. Anyone remember when?

Wasn't ISU in the in final postseason poll of 2000?

**Wesley** · 08-12-2007, 02:14 PM

Going to a major bowl would be the pinnacle over the past 100 years. Having not won Big Six, Eight, Twelve is worse than the Cubs. We can and shall do better than the past.