Bush/Reed on Iraq

**jbhtexas** · 09-14-2007, 08:47 AM

Just curious if anybody watched the speeches last night, and what opinions are.

BTW, the "Reed" was not Harry (as in the rather wacky Senate Majority Leader), but rather the ex-military Senator Reed from RI.

Reed made a point that stuck with me, and if true, is very troubling and problematic. He suggested that a major problem in Iraq is the political problem of getting the major ethnic groups to work together, and that this problem is still not solved, and that Iraq will never be stable until this issue is dealt with. I agree with him on that part about Iraq not being stable until there is a solution to the ethnic group issue. Reed made it sound as if there has really been no progress on this matter.

I think this was one of the major flaws in the original Bush strategy...it was apparently assumed that once Hussein was gone, the ethnic groups that were under oppression were going to be so grateful for being liberated that they would graciously play nice with the ethnic groups that weren't oppressed. Very short-sighted...

Also, I hate it when politicians from either party drag in emails, letters, and appearances from families of soldiers who have died in action. IMO, it turns an honorable death into a politcal beanbag...

**Cyclonepride** · 09-14-2007, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

Just curious if anybody watched the speeches last night, and what opinions are.

BTW, the "Reed" was not Harry (as in the rather wacky Senate Majority Leader), but rather the ex-military Senator Reed from RI.

Reed made a point that stuck with me, and if true, is very troubling and problematic. He suggested that a major problem in Iraq is the political problem of getting the major ethnic groups to work together, and that this problem is still not solved, and that Iraq will never be stable until this issue is dealt with. I agree with him on that part about Iraq not being stable until there is a solution to the ethnic group issue. Reed made it sound as if there has really been no progress on this matter.

I think this was one of the major flaws in the original Bush strategy...it was apparently assumed that once Hussein was gone, the ethnic groups that were under oppression were going to be so grateful for being liberated that they would graciously play nice with the ethnic groups that weren't oppressed. Very short-sighted...

Also, I hate it when politicians from either party drag in emails, letters, and appearances from families of soldiers who have died in actions. IMO, it turns an honorable death into a politcal beanbag...

I didn't see the speech last night, and all I have heard is the little sound bytes, so I can't really comment, except to say that I agree with your last point. I find it very distasteful too, whether they are soldiers lost or severely injured.

**frontrangeclone** · 09-14-2007, 12:59 PM

you'll love this commercial then...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNTWYnPi8yc"]YouTube - Freedom's Watch - Veteran[/ame]=

**247cy** · 09-14-2007, 01:23 PM

COIN is a difficult task, but it seems "the surge" has helped. There are some who are adapting well to the counter-insurgency operations (mainly the Marines OO-RAH!), and beginning to bring some normalcy to some previously hostile areas. Some in the leadership chain are starting to realize that lack of gunfire does not equate to lack of progress.

Twisting results for political gain is disgusting, and it happens on both sides.

Michael Yon's Dispatches are always an excellent read.

**isugcs** · 09-14-2007, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

Reed made a point that stuck with me, and if true, is very troubling and problematic. He suggested that a major problem in Iraq is the political problem of getting the major ethnic groups to work together, and that this problem is still not solved, and that Iraq will never be stable until this issue is dealt with. I agree with him on that part about Iraq not being stable until there is a solution to the ethnic group issue. Reed made it sound as if there has really been no progress on this matter.

When the conflict between ethnic groups in Iraq is brought up, I think about the problems the U.S. has encountered in the past. Before the civil rights movement there was definitely a rift between two ethnic groups, that really has never been completely erased or resolved. So why should be expect any different in Iraq? They don't have to love each other, they just need to learn to live together in a civil society. That will not happen overnight, but it doesn't mean it's cause to pack up and leave. Have patience, give it time. Iraq is an investment that I believe will pay dividends.

**HILLCYD** · 09-14-2007, 01:40 PM

Hey, guess what.........there is some kind of football tomorrow.

**DSM4Cy** · 09-14-2007, 01:48 PM

What Senator Reed said is, I believe, more realistic and more true of what's going on on the ground than what the President said. Did anyone notice how the President avoided talking about the fact that people in Anbar had started turning against Al-Qaeda before the "surge"? Also, I liked what Rachel Maddox said on MSNBC afterward, where she said something like "Well, people aren't worried about beheadings in Anbar anymore, they're just worried about being blown up," in reference to the Sunni cleric who was killed there yesterday.

Also, who are the 36 nations fighting along side us in Iraq?? Maybe there were at the very beginning, but even Britain is down to like 5 or 10,000 troops by now...

As much as I wish it were possible for there to be success in Iraq, I don't think there's anything more we can do to bring it about. It's going to take a LONG time for any sort of national reconstruction to occur there, considering there's barely an existing national government now, and many areas of the country don't even acknowledge its legitimacy. I just don't see how it makes sense to keep 130,000 of our troops in a constant war zone.

We liberated Iraq and got rid of Saddam. Now, the Iraqi people have to hold their government accountable. And, if we start leaving, maybe that will put more pressure on the Iraqi government...they'll have an "oh, crap" moment when they realize they have to come to an agreement or lose everything. There are no good options, just bad and worse, and I think it's time to be realistic and confront the truth.

**frontrangeclone** · 09-14-2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by isugcs

When the conflict between ethnic groups in Iraq is brought up, I think about the problems the U.S. has encountered in the past. Before the civil rights movement there was definitely a rift between two ethnic groups, that really has never been completely erased or resolved. So why should be expect any different in Iraq? They don't have to love each other, they just need to learn to live together in a civil society. That will not happen overnight, but it doesn't mean it's cause to pack up and leave. Have patience, give it time. Iraq is an investment that I believe will pay dividends.

didn't Wolfy say the war would be payed for with oil revenues once the black gold started flowing again? Pfffff.

**alaskaguy** · 09-14-2007, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by isugcs

When the conflict between ethnic groups in Iraq is brought up, I think about the problems the U.S. has encountered in the past. Before the civil rights movement there was definitely a rift between two ethnic groups, that really has never been completely erased or resolved. So why should be expect any different in Iraq? They don't have to love each other, they just need to learn to live together in a civil society. That will not happen overnight, but it doesn't mean it's cause to pack up and leave. Have patience, give it time. Iraq is an investment that I believe will pay dividends.

How is the occupation going to payoff when the perception is that the US in the bad guy? There is growing opposition by both the Shias and the Sunnis to the ongoing military occupation. The United States has little credibility left with either community as a mediator, peacekeeper, overseer, or anything else.

**frontrangeclone** · 09-14-2007, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by alaskaguy

How is the occupation going to payoff when the perception is that the US in the bad guy? There is growing opposition by both the Shias and the Sunnis to the ongoing military occupation. The United States has little credibility left with either community as a mediator, peacekeeper, overseer, or anything else.

once we bomb the bejeezus out of Iran and force regime change there, everyone will love us again.