Two arrested in noose incident near Jena, Louisiana

**Seth** · 09-21-2007, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by brianhos

Because there are double standards in our society, if it were 6 white kids that beat up a black kid, it would be attempted murder, hate crimes, terrorism. They would spend 30 years in jail and there would be protests when they were let out.

The prosecutor in the case has discretion as to which charges to pursue. He could have chosen battery, but instead is (or was, not sure if it's been amended) pursuing attempted murder. This case is being followed so closely because it is believed by many (myself included) that if the situation had been 6 white kids beating up a black kid, the prosecutor in the case would not have pursued attempted murder charges. The double standard you speak of actually cuts the other way. Believe it or not, racial discrimination still exists quite heavily in the south. Maybe you're just not exposed to it in Iowa, but I can assure you that it still exists.

Originally Posted by brianhos

Basically if you are anything other than a white male, you are treated better by our legal/ethical system, it is disgusting.

I wholeheartedly disagree. I think this statement just reeks of ignorance and I really can't just sit by and not call you out on it. Iowa is NOT your prototypical situation. In many parts of the country racism still exists and it's quite heated. Take for instance the Genarlow Wilson situation. I'm sure he would have something to say about your statement. He's the black kid from Georgia who was sent to jail for 20 years because the white prosecutor pursued the strictest penalties under the then existing (now repealed) Georgia statute for statutory rape. How, pray tell, does that situation fit with your brilliantly stated application of the law?

**neo** · 09-21-2007, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by cybsball20

Are you saying you don't agree with hate crime laws? Wow!

Ever heard of equal protection under the law?

**Cyclonesrule91** · 09-21-2007, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Seth

The prosecutor in the case has discretion as to which charges to pursue. He could have chosen battery, but instead is (or was, not sure if it's been amended) pursuing attempted murder. This case is being followed so closely because it is believed by many (myself included) that if the situation had been 6 white kids beating up a black kid, the prosecutor in the case would not have pursued attempted murder charges. The double standard you speak of actually cuts the other way. Believe it or not, racial discrimination still exists quite heavily in the south. Maybe you're just not exposed to it in Iowa, but I can assure you that it still exists.

I wholeheartedly disagree. I think this statement just reeks of ignorance and I really can't just sit by and not call you out on it. Iowa is NOT your prototypical situation. In many parts of the country racism still exists and it's quite heated. Take for instance the Genarlow Wilson situation. I'm sure he would have something to say about your statement. He's the black kid from Georgia who was sent to jail for 20 years because the white prosecutor pursued the strictest penalties under the then existing (now repealed) Georgia statute for statutory rape. How, pray tell, does that situation fit with your brilliantly stated application of the law?

Having lived in the North almost all of my life, it is easy to look at it like brianhos states purely because, at least me anyway, I have always thought everywhere is like Iowa. Only until my in-laws had the experiences I talked about above did we realize that this stuff is going on. Down there it is justifiable justice, but to a greenhorn that has not been subject to this stuff, I can easily see it brianhos's way.

Not that it is right, but some of us don't(or didn't in my case) know any better.

**brianhos** · 09-21-2007, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Seth

I wholeheartedly disagree. I think this statement just reeks of ignorance and I really can't just sit by and not call you out on it. Iowa is NOT your prototypical situation. In many parts of the country racism still exists and it's quite heated. Take for instance the Genarlow Wilson situation. I'm sure he would have something to say about your statement. He's the black kid from Georgia who was sent to jail for 20 years because the white prosecutor pursued the strictest penalties under the then existing (now repealed) Georgia statute for statutory rape. How, pray tell, does that situation fit with your brilliantly stated application of the law?

You truly believe that people are treated the same? That is quite silly actually. How can we say other classes are not treated diffrently when the NFL has to open all coaching jobs to blacks? They MUST interview blacks, that is a joke. What about college entrence applications? Why are there lower standards for non white males? People in this country are too quick to toss the race card up for anything, especially where it does not belong. These 6 kids should be treated the same as a white kid would. Jail time, and no freakin protests, people that protest things like this are just as guilty as the kid beating up the other kid.

**cybsball20** · 09-21-2007, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by neo

Ever heard of equal protection under the law?

It's a nice idea, if it existed... You need look no farther than the Berryman case. I know quite a few people that have done worse that punch a guy one time and take a cell phone and a couple of bucks and not even have charges filed.

**brianhos** · 09-21-2007, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by cybsball20

Are you saying you don't agree with hate crime laws? Wow!

Nope, a crime is a crime, it knows no race. The whole idea of hate crimes are unconstiutional in my mind. So if I beat up a white guy, I get charged with battery. If I beat up a black guy, I get battery and a hate crime, or a gay guy? There should be no class, or race, treated any differently.

**neo** · 09-21-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by cybsball20

It's a nice idea, if it existed... You need look no farther than the Berryman case. I know quite a few people that have done worse that punch a guy one time and take a cell phone and a couple of bucks and not even have charges filed.

What's that have to do with hate crimes?

**brianhos** · 09-21-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by cybsball20

It's a nice idea, if it existed... You need look no farther than the Berryman case. I know quite a few people that have done worse that punch a guy one time and take a cell phone and a couple of bucks and not even have charges filed.

Ohh come on, you are saying Berryman was treated worse because he was black? That is pure BS, he is treated badly because he is a flippin moron, and it was his second violent act.

**Seth** · 09-21-2007, 01:35 PM

I was born in a small town in Oklahoma. We had 1 black family in the town (the population was about 500 people total). I remember riding the bus to school one morning when I was in about 2nd grade and the bus stopped at their house. There was a charred cross in their front yard. This was probably in 1988 or 1989. Let me assure you, racism still exists. Maybe you don't see burnt crosses or nooses hanging from trucks in Iowa, but they exist in other parts of the country. Great strides were made in the civil rights movement, but it's not yet over. If you choose to not believe this or see this, then you are opting to be ignorant. Making statements such as " basically if you are anything other than a white male, you are treated better by our legal/ethical system, it is disgusting," is probably one of the most blatant manifestations of the type of ignorance I'm talking about.

**cybsball20** · 09-21-2007, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by brianhos

Nope, a crime is a crime, it knows no race. The whole idea of hate crimes are unconstiutional in my mind. So if I beat up a white guy, I get charged with battery. If I beat up a black guy, I get battery and a hate crime, or a gay guy? There should be no class, or race, treated any differently.

No, you wouldn't. If you beat up the guy BECAUSE he was black, yes you would get charged with a hate crime.

**Seth** · 09-21-2007, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by brianhos

You truly believe that people are treated the same? That is quite silly actually. How can we say other classes are not treated diffrently when the NFL has to open all coaching jobs to blacks? They MUST interview blacks, that is a joke. What about college entrence applications? Why are there lower standards for non white males? People in this country are too quick to toss the race card up for anything, especially where it does not belong. These 6 kids should be treated the same as a white kid would. Jail time, and no freakin protests, people that protest things like this are just as guilty as the kid beating up the other kid.

No, I don't think people are treated the same everywhere. That is my point. Yes, the 6 kids should be prosecuted for the crime they committed. If that crime was attempted murder, then it should be attempted murder. But it shouldn't be attempted murder if it was battery. It shouldn't be attempted murder just because the kids are black, either. I'm just stating, pure and simple, that the proposition you made, that white men are somehow discriminated against universally, is flat out wrong.

**brianhos** · 09-21-2007, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Seth

I was born in a small town in Oklahoma. We had 1 black family in the town (the population was about 500 people total). I remember riding the bus to school one morning when I was in about 2nd grade and the bus stopped at their house. There was a charred cross in their front yard. This was probably in 1988 or 1989. Let me assure you, racism still exists. Maybe you don't see burnt crosses or nooses hanging from trucks in Iowa, but they exist in other parts of the country. Great strides were made in the civil rights movement, but it's not yet over. If you choose to not believe this or see this, then you are opting to be ignorant. Making statements such as " basically if you are anything other than a white male, you are treated better by our legal/ethical system, it is disgusting," is probably one of the most blatant manifestations of the type of ignorance I'm talking about.

I am not saying racism does not exist, no way, while I have not personally seen it, I know it does. What I am saying is there should not be one class of people that are treated differently. That should be prosecuted as terrorism, and not hate crimes. How is it any different if I walked over to Neo's house and hung a noose in his tree. That is terrorism, now if Neo was black, it would be a hate crime also??? That makes no sense.

It is the same with the unequal treatment people with money in this country get, those of us with good jobs are taxed at a higher rate than people working at walmart. That is not right.

**CloneFan65** · 09-21-2007, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by brianhos

Basically if you are anything other than a white male, you are treated better by our legal/ethical system, it is disgusting.

Do you really believe this? In most areas of the country if a black man and a white man are on trial for the same crime, the black man is more likely to be found guilty and will receive a harsher sentence. Unfortunately racism is still a part of our country's subconscience.

**redrocker** · 09-21-2007, 01:41 PM

can't we all just get along???

**brianhos** · 09-21-2007, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by cybsball20

No, you wouldn't. If you beat up the guy BECAUSE he was black, yes you would get charged with a hate crime.

Great, so why aren't these black kids charged with a hate crime??? If they get charged with a hate crime, this whole argument is moot. But they won't because they are a protected class who cannot commit this sort of crime against a white person. That is all I am arguing about.