Ferentz looking backwards...

[darts180]

Take away Pete Carroll's last 4 years and he's mediocre too.

In fact, let's take away all the good seasons from the current coaches, and they're all mediocre!

You're right - I concede. If we take away half of KF's seasons, he's mediocre. Let's only count the ones where he first came in and the last two years. That's good reasoning. So, you're right. In order to judge how good of a coach KF is, we need to take away all of his success, Big Ten Championships, Top 10 seasons, 10+ win seasons, January Bowl Games, BCS Bowl game, and only take into account his first three seasons and last two.

Looks like there's plenty of mediocrity to go around!

The difference is that Carroll has parlayed his good season into building a consistent winner. KF's program is on the decline, after a brief, though impressive run, is back to a 6-7 win program. I think that the trajectory of what has happened in IC over the past 6-7 years speaks volumes as to what KF did to take advantage of his success. And the decline does not appear to be over.

Now maybe with the garbage schedule they are playing this year you can get that false hope of the magical era again. But that is the same principle as us playing for the North when we had the easy South teams, and all of the North was down, FOOLS GOLD.

[BryceC]

I don't think Iowa will be down that long and I think they have a very solid program. However, I think the 3 straight top ten finishes thing is over. I could be wrong. I still think they can be a solid top 25 program though. I mean the spend the second most in the country on football, they should be.

[SplitIdentity]

The difference is that Carroll has parlayed his good season into building a consistent winner. KF's program is on the decline, after a brief, though impressive run, is back to a 6-7 win program. I think that the trajectory of what has happened in IC over the past 6-7 years speaks volumes as to what KF did to take advantage of his success. And the decline does not appear to be over.

Now maybe with the garbage schedule they are playing this year you can get that false hope of the magical era again. But that is the same principle as us playing for the North when we had the easy South teams, and all of the North was down, FOOLS GOLD.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to make you sleep better at night.

The "easier schedule" is a bunch of BS. MSU is 4-0, and UM is 2-2 after losing to App State. I'd take playing UM this year over MSU hands down.

Playing road games at PSU, UW, Purdue, and Northwestern, with home games against Minnesota, Michigan State, Indiana, and Illinois isn't "an easy schedule."

And if you'd like to use a 2 year down period as a trend go for it. I wouldn't use a 2 year period as a trend, neither would most people. The program has shown signs of rebuilding . The fact that the offense has 3 Seniors (2 starting), 3 starting Juniors, and the rest being freshmen and sophomores gives most fans hope.

Not to mention the depth Iowa has on defense.

But, if it makes you feel better to say "yeah, but after that magical run (even though it's only 2 years removed), Iowa is done and over with", then go for it.

I'll ask you this though - do you have hope for ISU? If this season is a 2 or 3 win season, will you say that "ISU is on a downhill slope" or a positive one?

Afterall, if there aren't signs of success this year, how in the world can there be next year?

[bellzisu]

I'll ask you this though - do you have hope for ISU? If this season is a 2 or 3 win season, will you say that "ISU is on a downhill slope" or a positive one?

Afterall, if there aren't signs of success this year, how in the world can there be next year?

Answer for you question Southern... If ISU wins 2 or 3, Isu wouldn't be on a down hill slope. They went down the tube last year. New coach and new slope, which is starting at the bottom.

Just like with Ferentz. He only won 1 his first year and 3 his second.. He started at the bottom... Rose up for 3 years and now went down, although not completely down. Looking at a period of leveling off.

Hey did anyone here Jon D Miller today. Two Hawkeyes got arrested this summer and no one heard about it. One got arrested twice too... That made 11 Hawkeyes since April... WOW... New personal record for Iowa I think.

[SplitIdentity]

Answer for you question Southern... If ISU wins 2 or 3, Isu wouldn't be on a down hill slope. They went down the tube last year. New coach and new slope, which is starting at the bottom.

Just like with Ferentz. He only won 1 his first year and 3 his second.. He started at the bottom... Rose up for 3 years and now went down, although not completely down. Looking at a period of leveling off.

Hey did anyone here Jon D Miller today. Two Hawkeyes got arrested this summer and no one heard about it. One got arrested twice too... That made 11 Hawkeyes since April... WOW... New personal record for Iowa I think.

This is exactly my point. People are bringing up KF's first three years when he was building the program, and counting those seasons as "evidence of his mediocrity". My point is that he built the program in those three years, sustained some great success for 3 years, and now it looks like he's re-building again.

But, we won't be able to tell if he's re-building until at least the end of this year, probably into next year.

I agree that Chizik is building. I have no doubt in my mind ISU will be a strong program under him. However, if Chizik gets his first few years before people calling him mediocre, Ferentz does too. And I guarantee, if Chizik sustains a level of success that KF has at Iowa, the fans calling KF mediocre will be changing their tune.

[bellzisu]

This is exactly my point. People are bringing up KF's first three years when he was building the program, and counting those seasons as "evidence of his mediocrity". My point is that he built the program in those three years, sustained some great success for 3 years, and now it looks like he's re-building again.

But, we won't be able to tell if he's re-building until at least the end of this year, probably into next year.

I agree that Chizik is building. I have no doubt in my mind ISU will be a strong program under him. However, if Chizik gets his first few years before people calling him mediocre, Ferentz does too. And I guarantee, if Chizik sustains a level of success that KF has at Iowa, the fans calling KF mediocre will be changing their tune.

I think this is where I was misunderstood in this thread... KF is not a mediocre coach right now.. He is a good quality coach. His "program" is turning mediocre based on record alone the last 2 years going on to three.

I would just want our program to mediocre. It never made it there completely. Now with 3 years sustained success that Iowa had... Would you consider it 3 years of sustained mediocracy if they go 7 wins or less again?????

[cyclonenum1]

Take away Pete Carroll's last 4 years and he's mediocre too.

In fact, let's take away all the good seasons from the current coaches, and they're all mediocre!

You're right - I concede. If we take away half of KF's seasons, he's mediocre. Let's only count the ones where he first came in and the last two years. That's good reasoning. So, you're right. In order to judge how good of a coach KF is, we need to take away all of his success, Big Ten Championships, Top 10 seasons, 10+ win seasons, January Bowl Games, BCS Bowl game, and only take into account his first three seasons and last two.

Looks like there's plenty of mediocrity to go around!

Actually you are wrong...take away Pete Carroll's last 4 full years (and this year, too) and you find his record at USC to be 17-8 in his first two years (.680 winning percentage)...that would be considered above average. When you look at his entire body of work at USC he is 67-12 (.848 winning percentage)...that is elite. To compare, Ferentz is 69-65 (.515 winning percentage)...which is mediocre.

Actually if you take away the three good years Ferentz had, he is a POOR coach. You are the one that only wants to "count" certain years and conveniently ignore others...my contention has always been that you look at the entire body of work as a HC on the college level and you can only conclude that Ferentz is a mediocre coach.

[cyclonenum1]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to make you sleep better at night.

The "easier schedule" is a bunch of BS. MSU is 4-0, and UM is 2-2 after losing to App State. I'd take playing UM this year over MSU hands down.

Playing road games at PSU, UW, Purdue, and Northwestern, with home games against Minnesota, Michigan State, Indiana, and Illinois isn't "an easy schedule."

And if you'd like to use a 2 year down period as a trend go for it. I wouldn't use a 2 year period as a trend, neither would most people. The program has shown signs of rebuilding . The fact that the offense has 3 Seniors (2 starting), 3 starting Juniors, and the rest being freshmen and sophomores gives most fans hope.

Not to mention the depth Iowa has on defense.

But, if it makes you feel better to say "yeah, but after that magical run (even though it's only 2 years removed), Iowa is done and over with", then go for it.

I'll ask you this though - do you have hope for ISU? If this season is a 2 or 3 win season, will you say that "ISU is on a downhill slope" or a positive one?

Afterall, if there aren't signs of success this year, how in the world can there be next year?

I am beginning to think you are an imbecile. Again, you knock a 2 year trend while your entire argument for Ferentz being more than mediocre is based on only 3 years. Even your own comments indicate that Iowa has been down when you say "the program has shown signs of rebuilding".

Regarding ISU, I will remind you that this is Chizik's first year...so no, there will be no trend after this year is complete regarding his tenure. You will start to see the trend in the second year and going forward. Ferentz has been at Iowa for nearly a decade...it has been trend up, nice plateau, and trend down.

[cyclonenum1]

Answer for you question Southern... If ISU wins 2 or 3, Isu wouldn't be on a down hill slope. They went down the tube last year. New coach and new slope, which is starting at the bottom.

Just like with Ferentz. He only won 1 his first year and 3 his second.. He started at the bottom... Rose up for 3 years and now went down, although not completely down. Looking at a period of leveling off.

Hey did anyone here Jon D Miller today. Two Hawkeyes got arrested this summer and no one heard about it. One got arrested twice too... That made 11 Hawkeyes since April... WOW... New personal record for Iowa I think.

Now the police blotter...that is certainly one area that Iowa is definitely trending up in activity! Go Crooks (er, I mean hawks)!

[SplitIdentity]

I am beginning to think you are an imbecile. Again, you knock a 2 year trend while your entire argument for Ferentz being more than mediocre is based on only 3 years. Even your own comments indicate that Iowa has been down when you say "the program has shown signs of rebuilding".

Regarding ISU, I will remind you that this is Chizik's first year...so no, there will be no trend after this year is complete regarding his tenure. You will start to see the trend in the second year and going forward. Ferentz has been at Iowa for nearly a decade...it has been trend up, nice plateau, and trend down.

This is the post of a losing argument. "I think you are an imbecile" - nice. There's your argument.

Look, you can "trend up, plateau, and trend down" all you want, but the fact of the matter is, after Ferentz's first three years, he has gone 46-21. If that's mediocre (even though you just said that a .680 record is above mediocre), then I'll take that.

Which brings up an interesting point - you just said that a 17-8 record is above average. What is a 46-21 record? Average?

It seems to me that you are just arguing one point, and one point only. The last two years. You seem to think that Iowa is stuck in a rut, and that KF won't get them out of it. If that's what you want to think, go for it. You seem to think that after just 2 years, Ferentz and the Iowa program are washed up, done, out, gone. If you need to think that in order to sleep at night - go for it. I know you must be one of those fans that can't stand the thought of a rivals doing any good - so for that I'm sorry.

Argue this all you want, it doesn't matter. The fact that you think a 46-21 record in the last 6 years is average says it all. Ferentz trended up after his first 3 years, and has sustained a certain level of success.

[CloneFan65]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to make you sleep better at night.

The "easier schedule" is a bunch of BS. MSU is 4-0, and UM is 2-2 after losing to App State. I'd take playing UM this year over MSU hands down.

Playing road games at PSU, UW, Purdue, and Northwestern, with home games against Minnesota, Michigan State, Indiana, and Illinois isn't "an easy schedule."

That's a pretty light-weight schedule for a BCS conference.

[ketelmeister]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to make you sleep better at night.

The "easier schedule" is a bunch of BS. MSU is 4-0, and UM is 2-2 after losing to App State. I'd take playing UM this year over MSU hands down.

Playing road games at PSU, UW, Purdue, and Northwestern, with home games against Minnesota, Michigan State, Indiana, and Illinois isn't "an easy schedule."

And if you'd like to use a 2 year down period as a trend go for it. I wouldn't use a 2 year period as a trend, neither would most people. The program has shown signs of rebuilding . The fact that the offense has 3 Seniors (2 starting), 3 starting Juniors, and the rest being freshmen and sophomores gives most fans hope.

Not to mention the depth Iowa has on defense.

But, if it makes you feel better to say "yeah, but after that magical run (even though it's only 2 years removed), Iowa is done and over with", then go for it.

I'll ask you this though - do you have hope for ISU? If this season is a 2 or 3 win season, will you say that "ISU is on a downhill slope" or a positive one?

Afterall, if there aren't signs of success this year, how in the world can there be next year?

You are delusional....I'm from Minnesota, the Gophers are terrible, and Northwestern is worse. To call them tough is crazy. You can call it what you want, but without Michigan or Ohio State on the schedule, it's not tough.

[CloneFan65]

Argue this all you want, it doesn't matter. The fact that you think a 46-21 record in the last 6 years is average says it all. Ferentz trended up after his first 3 years, and has sustained a certain level of success.

I actually think Ferentz is a pretty good fit for Iowa. I don't know if most fans agree with your assessment, but it's good to hear a Hawkeye fan that doesn't expect to win the Big 10 every season. I always thought Tom Davis got a raw deal at Iowa. All he did was win 20 games every season and take the Hawks to the NCAA tourney, and disgruntled fans ran him out of town. I'm afraid the same may happen to Ferentz if he doesn't turn things around next season. I think Ferentz is a quality coach and the Hawks are lucky to have him.

[SplitIdentity]

I actually think Ferentz is a pretty good fit for Iowa. I don't know if most fans agree with your assessment, but it's good to hear a Hawkeye fan that doesn't expect to win the Big 10 every season. I always thought Tom Davis got a raw deal at Iowa. All he did was win 20 games every season and take the Hawks to the NCAA tourney, and disgruntled fans ran him out of town. I'm afraid the same may happen to Ferentz if he doesn't turn things around next season. I think Ferentz is a quality coach and the Hawks are lucky to have him.

Agreed. Let's face it - neither Iowa or ISU are ever going to be national contenders in either sport. The history isn't there, and the only way to build history is attract a coach that's a good fit, loves the school, and puts in his all.

Ferentz does that, Davis did that (I agree - he got a raw deal), and right now it looks like Lick does that.

[jumbopackage]

I actually think Ferentz is a pretty good fit for Iowa. I don't know if most fans agree with your assessment, but it's good to hear a Hawkeye fan that doesn't expect to win the Big 10 every season. I always thought Tom Davis got a raw deal at Iowa. All he did was win 20 games every season and take the Hawks to the NCAA tourney, and disgruntled fans ran him out of town. I'm afraid the same may happen to Ferentz if he doesn't turn things around next season. I think Ferentz is a quality coach and the Hawks are lucky to have him.

I totally agree with this. I think Ferentz is horribly overpaid, however. He got a huge payday based on those three great seasons, and now he's making insane money for running a mediocre to slightly-above-average program. He's a good coach. He's not a great coach. He's a good coach who got lucky for a few years, skating past some bad opponents with horrible defenses with a great offensive line.

All in all, Iowa should count themselves lucky to have him, but managing expectations is key to keeping him around.