GM hit by UAW strike

ISUFan22 · 09-24-2007, 11:28 AM

GM plants hit by UAW pickets - Sep. 24, 2007

The United Auto Workers union started a strike at General Motors facilities today with about 73,000 UAW members walking off the job and hitting the picket lines. It's the first nationwide strike during auto contract negotiations since 1976.

brianhos · 09-24-2007, 12:01 PM

I guess all those UAW workers will be even more pissed when GM goes bankrupt. Companies like GM should just file for bankruptcy and then drop the union contact and be allowed to hire non union workers. Offer up 75% of those union wages and I bet you get a lot of takers that are willing to work much harder for those jobs.

Cyclonepride · 09-24-2007, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by brianhos

I guess all those UAW workers will be even more pissed when GM goes bankrupt. Companies like GM should just file for bankruptcy and then drop the union contact and be allowed to hire non union workers. Offer up 75% of those union wages and I bet you get a lot of takers that are willing to work much harder for those jobs.

Yeah, they should all get raises, but I hope they save the extra money for when they are out of a job.

rd4isu · 09-24-2007, 12:12 PM

Yet there are some who still wonder why the Japanese are taking the US to the woodshed.

twojman · 09-24-2007, 12:20 PM

Good job UAW, average wages of about $60,000 and not paying for health care, you have it terrible and I feel awful for you.

Should we set up a donation fund on cyclonefanatic.com to help these poor people out?

4429 mcc · 09-24-2007, 12:25 PM

In all honesty from a business perspective. GM or Ford will never be the great manufacturer of old, that being said they should close more North American plants and move operations to Mexico, this will get rid of much of the overhead that is drowning GM & Ford. In Mexico the daily worker makes 25 dollars per day with no benefits, if GM moved to Mexico and offered medical, no retirement, they would most likely be able to produce a quality product that actually makes a profit. Given most of GM and Fords profits are eaten up in pensions,retirement and medical

jumbopackage · 09-24-2007, 12:34 PM

Does this mean they won't be building crappy cars and trucks anymore?
In that case, I'd think it's a win/win for consumers.

dmclone · 09-24-2007, 12:45 PM

Isn't it amazing that Honda and Toyota can come to the U.S. and build great cars and still make money? Here are the problems for the big 3 as I see them.

#1 Product
I think this is most important. The big 3 have shown that if they build a good original product than customers will buy. Just look at the vehicles like the 300C, Corvette, Chevy and Ford trucks, Pontiac Solstice, etc. They are all good products that are either at the top of their class or in a class all by themselves. The problem is that the big 3 have about over 100 models combined and I can pick out about 5 that are at the top of their game.
Now take a look at Honda.

Honda Fit-Best in class
Honda Accord-Best in class for about 20 years
Honda Civic-Best in class for about 20 years
Honda CRV-Best in class for 10 years
Honda Element-Really in a class by itself besides the Toyota XB-Niche vehicle
Honda Pilot-Best in class
Honda S2000-Niche vehicle that I think is the best convertable for around $30K
Honda Ridgeline-Really in a class itself-Doesn;t really compete against full size trucks.

Some of you may disagree that these are best in class but it should be no doubt that they are at least near the top and have been that way for a long time. Combine that with resale value.

So to summarize 8 vehicles.
5 best in class
3 niche vehicles that make up a small % of sales.

4429 mcc · 09-24-2007, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by dmclone

Isn't it amazing that Honda and Toyota can come to the U.S. and build great cars and still make money? Here are the problems for the big 3 as I see them.

The benefit Toyota and Honda have is they havent been building in the US for 100 years so they dont have the overhead of pensions from former employee and those retired.

brianhos · 09-24-2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by dmclone

I

Now take a look at Honda.

Honda Fit-Best in class
Honda Accord-Best in class for about 20 years
Honda Civic-Best in class for about 20 years
Honda CRV-Best in class for 10 years
Honda Element-Really in a class by itself besides the Toyota XB-Niche vehicle
Honda Pilot-Best in class
Honda S2000-Niche vehicle that I think is the best convertable for around $30K
Honda Ridgeline-Really in a class itself-Doesn;t really compete against full size trucks.

Add in the Odyssey. That and Sienna are the two best minivans by far.

jdoggivjc · 09-24-2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by 4429 mcc

The benefit Toyota and Honda have is they havent been building in the US for 100 years so they dont have the overhead of pensions from former employee and those retired.

Toyota and Honda also aren't unionized - they treat their employees well enough that they are able to stave off the attempts by the UAW to turn them into union shops. If and when the unions crack this, however, you will start seeing the same problems with the Japanese makers that you see with the big 3. That or they'll pack back up for Japan and manufacture outside the US only and hope they can work around the "3 out of 5 made in the US" quote that will no longer be true.

brianhos · 09-24-2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by 4429 mcc

The benefit Toyota and Honda have is they havent been building in the US for 100 years so they dont have the overhead of pensions from former employee and those retired.

Yeah, that is the point. The unions are driving the company into bankruptcy.

dmclone · 09-24-2007, 12:53 PM

#2 History

The big 3 have been building so-so cars for so long that now even when they are near the top in quality, they still have a bad reputation.

A few months back I was going through a small town in southern Missouri and was amazed how many people were driving imports. If you had went to one of those small towns 20 years ago you would have seen about 3% of the people driving imports. The big 3 have screwed their customers for so long that they finally gave up on them. All it takes is a few of your neighbors to have good luck with their foreign cars and suddenly you will start thinking about one yourself.

It took a long time for the majority of Americans to realize what the Big 3 were producing. Now it will take time to get their trust back.

dmclone · 09-24-2007, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by brianhos

Add in the Odyssey. That and Sienna are the two best minivans by far.

With no kids I often forget about the minivans.

dmclone · 09-24-2007, 01:01 PM

#3 Unions, costs, etc

I don't remember the exact numbers but I think $1,500 is added to each car the big 3 produce because of costs like pension, health care, etc.

I think if they took care of the #1 and #2 problem than #3 wouldn't be an issue. I'm happy to pay $1,500 more for a car that I thought was "best in class". People already do this when they buy a Honda. You can buy a Hyundai or Kia for a lot less money but still people will spend more for a Honda because they know what they are getting.