Income tax article

Cyclonepride · 10-20-2007, 07:46 AM

U.S. sues tax-protesting charity - Give and Take - MSNBC.com

Interesting article (to me anyway). I'm still trying to figure out whether or not you can legally stop federal withholding on a check by check basis, and pay in one lump sump. I can see no reason why it wouldn't be, or shouldn't be, as the automatic withholding is tyrannical by nature.

Cyclonepride · 10-20-2007, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Cyclonepride

U.S. sues tax-protesting charity - Give and Take - MSNBC.com

Interesting article (to me anyway). I'm still trying to figure out whether or not you can legally stop federal withholding on a check by check basis, and pay in one lump sump. I can see no reason why it wouldn't be, or shouldn't be, as the automatic withholding is tyrannical by nature.

Sorry....self quoting to go advanced.

Project Syndicate

This part describes my reasoning:

At first sight it seems unreasonable, indeed irresponsible, to undermine the all-too difficult task of collecting taxes by taking away the device of automatic withholding. It is hard enough to collect taxes, so how can societies possibly go back to a world where the tax office has to run after the taxpayer?
True, withholding makes tax collection easier and that is the point. The referendum's advocates believe that making it much harder for the state to tax will force governments to retrench on the currently untouchable spending front. This is an old idea from the California tax revolt of twenty-five years ago that was an important part of America's supply side revolution. Milton Friedman always said: take away the government's tax revenues and that way, and only that way, can you get spending cuts.
There is no better way to undermine taxation then to make government work hard to get its money. So, let people get their paychecks and then force the government to come and take the money from them. Only when the difference between gross and after-tax income becomes painfully obvious will tax payers revolt against the taxes they bear. Only when they figure out very concretely that half of the days they work are for the government will they really start agitating about big government.

Cyclonepride · 10-20-2007, 08:07 AM

Why An Income Tax is NOT Necessary to Fund the U.S. Government

Cyclonepride · 10-20-2007, 08:17 AM

The Claremont Institute - Repeal the 16th Amendment

ericlambi · 10-22-2007, 06:25 PM

Wow dude, I guess you really hate taxes. I read a couple of your links though, and they are pretty over-the-top pieces. Obviously, the government budget got a long much better before we had this social state. There is no way that taxes could be revoked like these articles advocate without completely eliminating social security and medicare. That would be fine with me since I don't need either and neither does anyone in my family, but I'm guessing voters in general wouldn't stand for it. This quote was pretty interesting:

Further, there isn't much more that can be extracted from high income brackets. If the
Government took 100% of all taxable income beyond the $75,000 tax bracket not already taxed, it would get only $17 billion, and this confiscation, which would destroy productive enterprise, would only be sufficient to run the Government for several days.

It is from a 1984 report to Reagan - assuming that the source can be trusted (not sure on this) - I would be interested to know what that number looks like today.

Overall, I agree with your sentiment though . . . taxes are poorly allocated and our government does not run a balanced budget, so clearly they will be much higher in the future. Too many politicians want to make big promises that we can't afford to keep. The biggest problem of course is that the smart economic and financial decisions are not the ones that get you [re-]elected as a politician. Until voters "get it", our government will continue to build a bigger hole for itself.

herbicide · 10-22-2007, 06:35 PM

What gets my chagrin is we are giving an interest free loan to the government.

Although, I am getting to the point that I would rather give an interest free loan to the government than have them borrow it from China or elsewhere.

Which is exactly what would happen without other drastic changes to our goberments spending habits.

ericlambi · 10-22-2007, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by herbicide

What gets my chagrin is we are giving an interest free loan to the government.

I don't know, one year I somehow had far too little withheld from my paycheck and I believe I had to pay a small fine and they also sent me tax pre-payment forms to try and make me pay more throughout the following year. I paid the fine, didn't make any pre-payments but fixed my withholding issues. Anyway, the point is that it isn't an interest-free loan if it is compulsory, it is just yet another more subtle tax.

Cyclonepride · 10-22-2007, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by ericlambi

Wow dude, I guess you really hate taxes. I read a couple of your links though, and they are pretty over-the-top pieces. Obviously, the government budget got a long much better before we had this social state. There is no way that taxes could be revoked like these articles advocate without completely eliminating social security and medicare. That would be fine with me since I don't need either and neither does anyone in my family, but I'm guessing voters in general wouldn't stand for it. This quote was pretty interesting:

It is from a 1984 report to Reagan - assuming that the source can be trusted (not sure on this) - I would be interested to know what that number looks like today.

Overall, I agree with your sentiment though . . . taxes are poorly allocated and our government does not run a balanced budget, so clearly they will be much higher in the future. Too many politicians want to make big promises that we can't afford to keep. The biggest problem of course is that the smart economic and financial decisions are not the ones that get you [re-]elected as a politician. Until voters "get it", our government will continue to build a bigger hole for itself.

I don't hate taxes as much as I hate massive waste of my taxes. I would actually pay a little more if I thought it did any good. We need to slash spending in a big way and right this ship before it takes on any more water.

keepngoal · 10-22-2007, 09:59 PM

honestly, as a mod here, I don't know what to do when a person posts a new thread AND is the first THREE replies in that thread.

Cyclonepride · 10-22-2007, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by keepngoal

honestly, as a mod here, I don't know what to do when a person posts a new thread AND is the first THREE replies in that thread.

Hey, can't a guy have a conversation with himself anymore without people getting all "lock him up in a padded room" on him?

alaskaguy · 10-22-2007, 10:49 PM

Cyclonepride this news might cheer you up; Rangel is drafting legislation to LOWER the corporate tax rate.

brianhos · 10-23-2007, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by herbicide

What gets my chagrin is we are giving an interest free loan to the government.

Although, I am getting to the point that I would rather give an interest free loan to the government than have them borrow it from China or elsewhere.

Which is exactly what would happen without other drastic changes to our goberments spending habits.

The best thing that could ever happen to this country is to stop payroll deductions. It would be great for every american to have to write the gov a check for $25,000 all at once. That would get people out of the tax and spend mindset. They would start getting angry about government waste.

This would also get people out of mindset of "Hey, I don't pay taxes, I got a refund this year! Let's go buy a new bigscreen!"

Kyle · 10-23-2007, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by keepngoal

honestly, as a mod here, I don't know what to do when a person posts a new thread AND is the first THREE replies in that thread.

I had thought about posting, but I didn't want to break the streak.

Johnny Tremain · 10-23-2007, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclonepride

Why An Income Tax is NOT Necessary to Fund the U.S. Government

Devvy Kidd. I suspect you had to troll rather deep in the right-wing underworld to dig up this crackpot to be your subject matter expert.

Link: Devvy Kidd -- Quatlosers Hall of Shame

Link: Devvy's Project

Cyclonepride · 10-23-2007, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny Tremain

Devvy Kidd. I suspect you had to troll rather deep in the right-wing underworld to dig up this crackpot to be your subject matter expert.

Link: Devvy Kidd -- Quatlosers Hall of Shame

Link: Devvy's Project

Johnny, it would not be a complete thread without a crosscheck on our sources. Thank you so much for you input