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I don't know that nothing has changed. While France and Germany vehemently (sp?) resented our invation of Iraq, with the new administrations in place (Sarkozy and Merkel) they will be more than willing to "look the other way."Quote:
Originally Posted by bawbie
The only government that won't admit Iran isn't trying to procure nukes is Russia.
The troops in Saudi Arabia are unnecessary and costly. There presence makes us less, not more secure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclonepride
It is interesting that you acknowledge that the reason that we need to maintain our bases in Saudi Arabia is because of oil. If we shutter our bases do you think that the Saudi's would refuse to sell us oil? I would find such a scenario to be far fetched at best. The realities of the economics of oil do not require that we maintain the Saudi bases. In fact, there are a number of reasons that we should be distancing ourselves from the Saudi's rather than cuddling up to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclonepride
Please name a country that is refusing to sell oil to the United States.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclonepride
None of the Middle Eastern countries are in a position to wield oil as a weapon against the United States. With virtually no other sources of revenue they have no other "logical" choice but than to sell their oil.
I don't think Sadam was trying to annex the entire middle east to play nice with the West.Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaguy
We need a military presence in the mid-east to make sure everyone respects their autonomous borders. I have no doubt we will have permanent bases in Iraq also.
Why is it our job to make sure that everyone respects their autonomous borders? Does it threaten our national security interest?Quote:
Originally Posted by Incyte
If we get back to the original topic of this thread, which is the "war on terror" how do our bases in Saudi Arabia assist us in the War on Terror? What our Saudi bases have done is made us a target of terrorism. I submit that the U.S. military presence in the Middle East has been more of a liability than an asset.
Not going to take the time to read 3 pages of stuff...
However I'm of the opinion that our primary interests in the middle east lie in the black gold that they have, and that we should be striving to become energy independant. As an added bonus, in the process of reducing our dependance on oil it is a distinct possibility that we will reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, shutting Al Gore up.
For about 6 months... until he finds a new cause to lead the crusade on.
Obviously there are other reasons for having interests in the middle east, but oil is undoubtedly the big one. As for the whole idea of spreading democracy and all that good stuff to the rest of the world... I don't think it's really our place to tell the rest of the world how they are going to do things (maybe you will not do this this and this but... telling them how to run their country completely is a bit extreme) and unfortuantly due to many ideological differences, we will always be at odds with the middle east. Lets face it, 99% of your population can be rationale, accepting, understanding of others and appreciative of their differences, but you'll still have that extremist edge that you cannot snuff out.
Personally I hope the term "War on Terror" dies with President Bush's stepping out of office, it's a stupid term. There has been terrorism almost as long as there has been civilization to terrorize... it's not like Muslim extremists are the first, nor will they be the last. Anyone familiar with the Jewish Zeolots? (sp?) Calling it the war on terror really isn't serving any puprose but to help broaden his power and being a useful fear based control tool
Personally, I wouldn't consider voting for a political candidate unless they make a strong commitment to counter the efforts of terrorists. It is the primary responsibility of our government to defend us from hostile interests. Terrorist groups constitute a real threat and their threat must be countered.
So, in essence, they attacked us to get us out of Saudi Arabia, and you want to leave. Let me guess........ they will leave us alone if we do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclonepride
One of the primary motivating factors for al-Qaeda has been our presence in Saudi Arabia. Our presence serves no useful purpose and contributes to anti-American sentiment.
Cyclonepride are you familiar with the 9/11 report? Various connections are established between the 9/11 attack and the Saudi government.
The fact of the matter is that in real life I do not pass the muster to be labeled a "liberal". In general, it is the hard core right-wing faction of this board e.g. Cyclonepride, Herbie, and some others, who play fast and loose with the facts (or just make them up) when they pontificate. And because I am pretty stupid myself, I challenge them from time to time. And usually, their response is that I am a lefty and in their judgment, not worthy to comment on their omnipotent wisdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by bawbie
I don't think it's too wise to let Islamic fascists dictate our foreign policy choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaguy
Islamic fascists detest the presence of Israel. Maybe we should sacrifice Israel to them in order not to cause more "anit-American sentiment."
I agree that we should not let Islamic fascists dictate our foreign policy choices. If anything that is what GWB is doing by cuddling up to the midevil theocracy of Saudi Arabia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Incyte
Is Israeli security a U.S. security problem?
Essentially yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaguy
Absolutely. It is an essential read. However, I don't think US foreign policy or what we deem to be in the interests of our self defense should be dictated to us by murderers.Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaguy