Should there be a smoking ban at the Chica Shack too, since they have employees? I mean, the entire place is formed for people to go to so they can smoke flavored tobacco.Quote:
Employees should not have to choose betweeen work and their health.
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Should there be a smoking ban at the Chica Shack too, since they have employees? I mean, the entire place is formed for people to go to so they can smoke flavored tobacco.Quote:
Employees should not have to choose betweeen work and their health.
So you don't think I should be able to open a restaurant that markets to and caters to smokers exclusively?Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaguy
You do understand that employees still have a choice as to where they work here in the US...don't you?
What would you say if the government implemented a mandatory height and weight scale to all citizens? Let's say the scale dictates that a person that is six feet tall cannot weigh in excess of 190 pounds. Anyone in excess of the maximum weight for their height would have a choice...either attend a government fat camp to lose weight or have their income taxes quadrupled. What would you think of that? How often should we be required to weigh in with the goverment?
Employees chose to work there in the first place, so how is it the peoples (gov't) responsibility to protect those that have a choice? ..... Why did employees; 1. Fill out an application, 2. Go to the interview, 3. Say 'yes' when offered the job; And NOT know if the place allowed smoking .... I just can't believe that people are that dumb to say yes to a job and then complain about the second hand smoke... or that the gov't (any level) would believe people to be that dumb too.
I know I am not going to change your mind, but I really do not understand how liberals come up with their stances on these issues .... IMO, each stance contradicts the other.
-keep.
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Originally Posted by Cyclone62
Where is this establishment? What blasphemy...creating a place specifically for people who want to smoke! Don't you know that the employees are forced to work there? I'm certain there are no other jobs for those employees anywhere else!
Ok, second hand smoke doesn't reach out and strangle anyone, I'll give you that. But it does kill people. Same way being fat doesn't kill many people, rather it's the inevitable lung and heart disease that you develop as a result of being fat. I guess obesity isn't that big of a deal then.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone#1
Basically your saying that there are no indirect correlations in life? Is this a timeframe issue? If secondhand smoke killed instantly then you would agree? I guess it's unfortunate that it doesn't work that way and instead is a contributing factor to a slow death.
How does obesity put a strain on our health system and not smoking? Obesity affects..gasp..fat people. Smoking affects smokers and anyone who may be in the vicinity of smokers. How is that a hard distinction to make?
The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: A Report of the Surgeon General, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
As far as seatbelt laws go, I wear mine, my wife wears hers, the rest of my family wears theres that's all I care about. If you want to not wear one and get thrown through your windshield then go ahead, you obviously aren't worth having around anyways. Seatbelts are a very simple means to save lives, if you want to stick it to the man and not wear one then so be it.
I don't think you can directly implicate second hand smoke as a cause of death.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoneyr
Clearly, I do believe that both smoking and obesity can lead to an individual's accelerated death (although even that is not automatic...I've seen plenty of articles about people well over 100 that smoke, drink, and eat McDonald's french fries on a regular basis). But to tell me that second hand smoke leads to death...I'm not buying it.
What makes you think I don't wear my seat belt? I do...but I don't think I would be "sticking it to the man" if I chose not to wear one. I just don't think it should be mandated by government that everyone must wear a seat belt.
As I said in my first post in this thread...I don't and have never smoked. I detest cigarette (and cigar and pipe for that matter) smoke...but I am leery of us letting our government take away our personal liberties so easily.
See I take issue to even title of you link.... Involuntary?!!?? Where is that? Either you chose to be around smoking people or you don't. :idea:
We voluntarily choose not to be around them .... Why isn't that good enough??
-keep.
Great topic shift: This is one of my pet peeves. I do NOT believe in seatbelt laws or helmet laws. But then, I don't believe that I should pay for your medical costs, if you are injured when I accidentally run into you, either, if you aren't wearing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone62
On the other hand, if you aren't wearing a seatbelt, you get in an accident, and your body hits another occupant, you should be held CRIMINALLY, as well as financially liable for whatever damage your body does to theirs, should you survive the crash.
I also don't believe in speed limits. But I believe people who exceed their or their vehicles' limit to maintain control, or ability to stop should be charged with felony-type crimes.
It's that old "rights versus responsibilities" thing. And, except for repeat offenders, (who should be given a quick "dirt nap") the people who damage others through violations of these laws should be kept in a state of slavery, until they've worked off the value of the damage they've done. No more "three hots and a cot" for lawbreakers, at the taxpayers' expense.
First, I wasn't directing the seat belt comment at you cyclone#1, sorry for the confusion.
Second, why do you think that the TOXINS and CARCINOGENS in smoke are not harmful? They don't call them toxins and carcinogens because it's a cute name. You agree that they accellerate death, but just not enough to say that they cause it? How fast do you have to die from second hand smoke to say that it caused it, are we talking minutes?
If a drunk driver kills someone in a hit and run and isn't caught does that mean drunk driving didn't cause that death? If they're not caught sure we may not KNOW that it was caused by drunk driving, but that doesn't make it any less true.
Keepngoal, you're assuming that I'm walking into an establishment where people are already smoking. Say I sit down at a restaurant, nobody smoking at the time, and someone comes in after me and lights up right next to me. That would be me involuntarily ingesting his smoke, sure I could leave but I was there, eating a meal peacefully, when he came in and started smoking. I didn't choose anything, it was chosen for me, even if I leave right after I notice him smoking, I still had to breathe it. Now, I know that being around smoke for a minute isn't going to do much in the long run but I'm talking more about the idea here. And chances are if I'm in the middle of a meal I can't just get up and leave immediately, I have to wait for my check and pay and what not.
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Originally Posted by herbiedoobie
I've always been curious: Why, apart from the "OMG the gubment is knocking at my door to talk away all my FREEEEDOMS", is it so bad for you to have to wear a seatbelt or helmet? Are you just a 13yo kid at heart and you just can't stand being told what to do? Why go through all the hassle of financial liability and criminal charges for those who don't wear them, and just have them wear them in the first place?
As far as speed limits, I don't know you, but I would trust you about as far as I can throw you to know what the "safe-limits of your car" are, same for anyone. What gives you the expertise to decide what's safe when I'm on the same road as you? Are you a safety engineer, perhaps an expert in the field of aerodynamics or car safety? And criminial and financial liabilities are all well and good if you hit me because you don't know what's safe. But that does me a whole lotta good when I'm injured, maimed or dead.
you rolled the dice KNOWING that the place was NOT a smoke free environment ... honestly, you knew that. Either choose smoke free places or sit in an area that doesn't bother you if the place allows smoking in areas. (of course only make that choice if it is that important to you, which might not be to others). Personally we sometimes have to go out of our way to finda smoke-free or smoke-friendly place with our kids at a PRIVATE establishment. Kudos to that PRIVATE establishment for creating an atmosphere like that for me (selfishly) and my family to enjoy. I try to support those that make my life safer, friendlier and easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoneyr
Each of us has control of who/what we choose to be around. I love it when the all inclusion crowd decides what is to be included and what is not to be included.
Maybe some don't realize the power they truly have in choice, and instead prefer to exercise the use of the gov'ts powers to make their life 'easier'.
- keep.
Well it was nice to meet you the two times I have. Yes I smoke. Don't do it in peoples houses or restaurants. Only bars, home, and outside.Quote:
Originally Posted by keepngoal
hahahaha.....Quote:
Originally Posted by chadm
To clarify, when we are out with the kids and sometimes when not. But not you personally ChadM. But, it is nice of you to be considerate of others with your dirty, dirty habit. :wink:
Myself, I could really care less what people do to themselves .... Lord knows I have done enough.
But at least I got you to post in the politics section. Looks like you are now in charge of mod'ing it..... :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
-keep.
I completely understand I have a right to choose, and I do choose to go places that don't allow smokers, or atleast don't allow them where I'm eating. I've only rarely been bothered by smokers, but just because I don't go places where smoking is a problem that makes it not a problem for anyone? Why do you accept that you have to be pidgeonholed into choosing only certain places to eat at? I guess you're ok with being forced into a limited number of choices, I would prefer to be able to go wherever I please. Why do you agree to go out of your way to accomodate smokers? They choose to have the habit, they choose to do something that affects others negatively, shouldn't they be the ones to go out of their way?
Cyclone#1 you claim that there are people well over 100 that smoke, drink and eat McDonalds french fries on a regular basis. Are these the norms or the exceptions? As an analogy, I used to live in Las Vegas and witnessed people winning large jack pots from playing slot machines. So should I be emulating their actions and playing slot machines?
I don't see banning smoking in restaurants, taverns, and casinos as any type of slippery slope. It represents a health risk to the employees and can be eliminated without substantial employer effort.
Should a chemical company have the right to expose an employee to toxic chemicals if they provide some disclosure of the related health risks/ or the employee is aware of the risk? Should mining companies be required to provide safety equipment for their employees? Should mining companies filter non-toxic air into mine shafts or just find employees that will assume the health risks of working in an unhealthy environment? Should busineesses be required to install fire suppression equipment or should employees be subjected to the danger of being burned as long as they have the right to choose between working for a company that would do a better job of protecting them from heath and safety issues?