Chavez is flat out nuts

Cyclonepride · 12-01-2007, 08:53 AM

Chavez's bluster surges ahead of vote - Washington Post - MSNBC.com

On Friday, a day when an estimated 200,000 people in Caracas rallied in support of Chavez, officials saw yet one more possible sign of conspiracy. Toilet paper is in short supply -- as are milk, eggs and other staples.
"We know there are sectors hiding toilet paper," Finance Minister Rodrigo Cabezas said on state television. "A group of business leaders are playing mean, playing dirty." He said it was designed to "create the sensation of product shortage during the election."

iceclone · 12-01-2007, 10:26 AM

A nut perhaps, but he is a surprisingly effective nut. I’m starting to think he’ll be able to demagogue another election victory. El presidente for life! For what it's worth, I don't think he believes any of his own rhetoric, which would make him less of a nut and more of a politician.

cytech · 12-01-2007, 02:42 PM

Now he is saying that if the election votes to get rid of term limit's and it is challenged he will cut off oil shipments to the united states.

herbiedoobie · 12-01-2007, 02:57 PM

This is the reason we should, when Chavez inevitably implodes, wall off Venezuala and never give them a penny of aid. Ever.

Let those idiots suffer for electing Chavez as an example to the rest of the world.

The Romans had some things incredibly right.

alaskaguy · 12-01-2007, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by cytech

Now he is saying that if the election votes to get rid of term limit's and it is challenged he will cut off oil shipments to the united states.

How does one cut-off oil shipments to the U.S.? The only possible way is to suspend shipments to the entire world and who will that hurt the most?

To cut-off oil shipments to the U.S. all the other nations on the earth would have to refuse to sell the embargoed oil to the U.S. OR governments would have to enforce a blockade around our borders.

Once oil leaves Venezuela market forces will dictate where the oil goes, not Venezuela. Anyone willing to pay the world price could have all the oil they want.

alaskaguy · 12-01-2007, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by cytech

Now he is saying that if the election votes to get rid of term limit's and it is challenged he will cut off oil shipments to the united states.

Actually the threat was conditional on the U.S. sabotaging the election.

Any move to cut off oil supplies to the U.S. is considered highly unlikely. Mr. Chávez has made many similar threats in the past. But cutting off oil shipments to the U.S., by far Venezuela's largest customer, would cause Venezuela much more damage than the U.S., since the only refineries that are equipped to refine Venezuela's heavy, sulfur-laden crude are in the U.S.

Source:
Free Preview - WSJ.com

alaskaguy · 12-01-2007, 09:45 PM

Polls show that most oppose the national referendum.

However Chevez appointees control the electoral council, which monitors the voter rolls, the voting machines and the ultimate count.

herbiedoobie · 12-02-2007, 01:03 AM

Now, wait a minute. I thought Former President Jimmy Carter validated Chavez' last election as valid....

Are you telling me that their election process might be corrupt? I'm shocked, I say. Shocked!

iceclone · 12-02-2007, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by alaskaguy

How does one cut-off oil shipments to the U.S.? The only possible way is to suspend shipments to the entire world and who will that hurt the most?

To cut-off oil shipments to the U.S. all the other nations on the earth would have to refuse to sell the embargoed oil to the U.S. OR governments would have to enforce a blockade around our borders.

Once oil leaves Venezuela market forces will dictate where the oil goes, not Venezuela. Anyone willing to pay the world price could have all the oil they want.

He says he will just turn off the spigot

His rhetoric is not about being able to follow through with the threat; it is all about making an empty threat to win votes. And it is probably going to work for El Presidente.

iceclone · 12-02-2007, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by alaskaguy

Polls show that most oppose the national referendum.

However Chevez appointees control the electoral council, which monitors the voter rolls, the voting machines and the ultimate count.

Originally Posted by herbiedoobie

Now, wait a minute. I thought Former President Jimmy Carter validated Chavez' last election as valid....

Are you telling me that their election process might be corrupt? I'm shocked, I say. Shocked!

He’s demagogue extraordinaire! I have seen little to no evidence to suggest he has needed to resort to direct manipulation of elections in the past. What he will do when he eventually loses support is an open question.

Cyclonepride · 12-02-2007, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by iceclone

He’s demagogue extraordinaire! I have seen little to no evidence to suggest he has needed to resort to direct manipulation of elections in the past. What he will do when he eventually loses support is an open question.

I don't think there is any question about that at all. Any deviation from his program will result in charges of tampering from some outside source.

alaskaguy · 12-03-2007, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by herbiedoobie

Now, wait a minute. I thought Former President Jimmy Carter validated Chavez' last election as valid....

Are you telling me that their election process might be corrupt? I'm shocked, I say. Shocked!

You mean the same Jimmy Carter that killed his sister-in-law's cat in 1990?

Here is what Jimmy wrote his sister-in-law after he killed her cat....

"Lamentably, I killed your cat while trying just to sting it. It was crouched, as usual, under one of our bird feeders & I fired from some distance with bird shot. It may ease your grief somewhat to know that the cat was buried properly with a prayer & that I'll be glad to get you another of your choice."

And people complain about the trouble that Dick Cheney gets in when he goes hunting.

herbiedoobie · 12-03-2007, 02:48 AM

If I would've known that Carter killed a cat, I wouldn't be as hard on him.

iceclone · 12-03-2007, 08:37 AM

Chavez concedes:

The outcome is a stunning development in a country where Mr. Chávez and his supporters control nearly all of the levers of power. Almost immediately after the results were broadcast on state television, Mr. Chávez conceded defeat, describing the results as a “photo finish.”

“I congratulate my adversaries for this victory,” he said. “For now, we could not do it.”

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/wo...hp&oref=slogin

iceclone · 12-03-2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Cyclonepride

I don't think there is any question about that at all. Any deviation from his program will result in charges of tampering from some outside source.

It's too early to say that you were wrong, but so far Mr. Chavez has won convincing election victories, and now gracefully conceded defeat. There is certainly time for him to pull something later, but now seems to have been his best opportunity to challenge the validity of the vote.