Why we look confused.

Clone9 · 12-06-2007, 11:43 PM

Who cares if we lose to Drake by 35 or 55? I think we should play Diante and Booze now.....they're gonna take their lumps, but they're gonna learn in the process, and they (and we) will be better for it. SP and Haluska do not provide anything for us. It's one thing if JC guys can come in and win games (Taylor last year), but these guys aren't capable of that, so we should just play our future and hope that the experience will do them well.

cybsball20 · 12-06-2007, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by ajk4st8

Its not that we whiffed... but lets be honest... these guys arent class headliners. They are filler players until Mac can get the type of guys he wants for each position. He had to get SOMEONE. Anyone who believes we have more than 3-4 legit big 12 (not just decent roll players) caliber guys on this team is just flat out wrong.

At this level you can't afford to just recruit 'fillers'. If that is the case he should have just gone shorthanded. Unless Garrett and Boozer get run off or transfer, which to be honest, I can see then we are stuck with their scholly's for four years...

cyclonenum1 · 12-07-2007, 09:25 AM

I'm sorry to hear that our coach has 250 sets and 50 out of bounds plays...frankly, I think that is ridiculous...nothing more than over-coaching what is a relatively simple game.

I watched the UNC/Penn game a few nights ago and UNC's primary staple of a play was their patented secondary break (if they didn't get a look on the intial break...they do push the ball upcourt) while Penn's primary staple was the Princeton back door (you cut to the basket when your teammate dribbles towards you).

Going back a little further, the old pick & roll was nearly indefensible with Stockton and Malone and the same thing for the simple triangle offense the Bulls ran with Jordan, Pippen, and a third player.

I know we don't have Stockton, Malone, Jordan, or Pippen on our team but I find it hard to believe there is a lot of value to having this number of set plays...I have always found that players that have to do too much thinking end up being slow to react during the game. I certainly don't want "street ball" but there is a point of diminishing returns with respect to the number of plays.

Frankly, I would like to see us recruit long, quick, athletic guys and let them play...look at the teams in the past few final fours...that is what you will mostly see. This 250 play nonsense seems to be better suited to a team with short, slow, un-athletic guys.

Steve · 12-07-2007, 09:45 AM

I knew that Gmac was a set play style coach. The 250 number, however, is alarming to hear. For a comparison, Collier's failure at Nebraska was linked to players having a hard time mastering his 200 play offense.

For the college game, I've always favored the Bobby Knight style motion offense. Orr liked to have his teams run, but his half court approach was similar to BK's.

StLouisClone · 12-07-2007, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Clone9

Who cares if we lose to Drake by 35 or 55? I think we should play Diante and Booze now.....they're gonna take their lumps, but they're gonna learn in the process, and they (and we) will be better for it. SP and Haluska do not provide anything for us. It's one thing if JC guys can come in and win games (Taylor last year), but these guys aren't capable of that, so we should just play our future and hope that the experience will do them well.

I didn't see the Drake game, but I've seen all the others. It's my hope that the Drake blowout will finally convince McDermott to change his mindset about our season. I think he honestly believed that Petersen and Haluska were better. Being JUCO players, I'm sure they were better at running McDermott's offense during the short practice time that led up to the start of the season. He probably felt they gave us the best chance to win games, and they did help us win three games (well at least Petersen helped us win three games). The problem is that we aren't going to win more than 10 games all season with those guys playing 25-30 minutes/game. The talent in the Big 12 (Augustine, Collins, etc.) is just too good. We can all see that, and I'm sure McDermott can too.

necromancy · 12-07-2007, 12:43 PM

250 set and 100 inbound plays has got to be hyperbole. Just because someone says it on a message board doesn't mean it's true.

Incyte · 12-07-2007, 01:16 PM

I think it's assanine to say we whiffed on Garrett and Boozer just a handful of games into their Freshman years.

It's also good to know that we have several members of our fan base that know a lot more about coaching than Greg. Obviously several of you will become D1 coaches in the next several years. Geesh.

Wesley · 12-07-2007, 01:36 PM

McD has a pile of plays, but they usually break down with the point guard. last year, Mike Taylor totally improvised when no one moved to the ball.

I would set BP and Sean H down and tell their two backups to dribblre until you can get the ball to Alex, Craig, Jiri, or Rashon. Diante has missed all his layups so just pass off to a big. Tell the bigs one is coming out if they miss 3 straight shots. make the carrot for the bigs shooting and scoring. WEho needs reboiunds if you make the first shot.

With Wesley's injury, we truly have no take charge player left to our name. We just have a series of roll/role players.

bfross · 12-07-2007, 02:17 PM

Anyone who thinks we look any different than last year through the non-conference season has a short memory and needs to go back and watch some of those tapes. We looked confused through the entire non-conference season last year as well. There is one big difference, Mike Taylor. After that, the players may be the different, but the team is basically the same team as last year. Rahshon lacking a distributor and defense to make his game shine, Jiri still injured and nowhere to be found (last year he was sitting out), inexperience at the guard positions (CMAC and Dodie), and Wesley starting, but playing limited minutes to start the season. Everything is the same, big difference, no Mike Taylor-like player. So you get what we got last year, an offense that was dumbed down and unrecognizable at times and a defense set up to give us a chance to stay in games, just this time we don't have a great scorer. Brackins has had his moments, but just like last year, our wings can't get him in position for easy scores right now, so he disappears most games. So you get what we have.

SpokaneCY · 12-07-2007, 02:28 PM

MacFarland has for football? Does ANYBODY think they practice all those plays, let alone use them in a game? GMac probably HAS collected hundreds of set plays throughout the years and probably has some that are geared for a specific situation on the court. Does ANYBODY think there are enough hours in the day to walk-thru hundreds of plays?

Some people are just WAY to literal....

As for SH and BP, SH provides defense that Boozer doesn't - and thats what has been said by GMac in postgames. GMac really loves his defense but wants his offense to catch-up.

And they were supposed to be role players for Taylor and CMac. We're actually lucky to have them considering our circumstances....

DG is the better athlete, but unless he knows the offense not of just the PG but all other players on the floor and understands the defense deployed, what use is he in the system and in the near-term progress of this team? I'm not saying BP knows more or not, I'm just putting my faith in the professional basketball coach who has more professional years of service in his field of expertise than probably the rest of us combined and has a track record of winning basketball...

Next year will be better - we'll be healthier, more experienced at some spots, younger at others, etc..... then the year after is where I'm lookign for our first taste of excellence.

Wesley · 12-07-2007, 02:29 PM

Craig is our big scorer at 13 points a game. Two otehrs average 10 a game. That gets us up to 33 points. Other two starters probably get us up to 39 points. Then the bench must make uop the rest. Step uop, bench, we need 30 points a game out of you. Yo, Marlon, yo Brock, yo Alex, yo walk-on, crank it up.

It is very hard to win a ball game if you cannot score 50, even in high school unless you are Princeton (which we are not).

Something else needs to be tried to score more. Coach needs to accommodate the talent on the floor. Why not start bombing threes and looking for the long bounceout rebounds. Can we get any worse on offense. I thought last year was disorganized as shot clock ran out with Mike Keystone Cops Taylor bombing away and was the pits. Now this year we are worse.

Maybe we need to start practicing set shots again. How about drawing fouls so we can get more free throws?

StLouisClone · 12-07-2007, 02:30 PM

Looking at the Drake box score, I noticed that Cameron Lee saw his first real action. In four minutes, he had one assist and no turnovers. Since I didn't get to see the game, could someone who did post their thoughts about Cameron? Does he look like someone who could help us this year?

TedKumsher · 12-07-2007, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by mjlane

That's what I don't get about BP and SH. There are literally thousands of guards available every year in recruiting, and we couldn't find 2 guys better than them? I'm really not trying to dog them, because I think they play hard, but they just aren't cut out for this level of play. Could we really not find guys any better than that?

They're walk-ons. (Who have now, I believe, gotten scholarships for this year because of the loss of recruited scholarship players.)

And you can't say that Garrett and Boozer are better, otherwise they'd be playing.

Could be working them in slowly so they don't get their confidence trashed.

cybsball20 · 12-07-2007, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by SpokaneCY

As for SH and BP, SH provides defense that Boozer doesn't - and thats what has been said by GMac in postgames. GMac really loves his defense but wants his offense to catch-up.

Is this for real? G-Mac said this? Outside of Peterson, Haluska is the worst defender on the team! He has no concept of denial or team defense! Please see my breakdown http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/...s-defense.html

TedKumsher · 12-07-2007, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by ISUonthemove

When I was at UNI, McDermott had over 250 offensive plays. 50 inbounds plays under the hoop and about 50 inbounds plays from the sideline.

So help us out--is this like, say, 8 standard variations of 35 actual plays or something? I can easily see that.

5 easy standard variations of each play--which individual player is the "go-to" guy for the play. Take an inbouds play: The standard set play has the 4 team members running a specific pattern with 1 person doing something different at some point in the pattern to try to get open. That's 1 play to learn with 4 standard variations (technically for 4 different set plays).