LickLiter takes a jab at the hawk fans

[isucyfan]

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

And you know what I just realized? Arguing over who's crowd is bigger is like men arguing over a certain body part being bigger. It's just dumb.

Yeah, but we all know Cyclone fans' cerebrums are bigger.

As much as you spin, one would think you were a Cyclone.

[SouthernHawk]

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

More spin...more avoiding the facts. We know how to spot it over here...nice try. Not a damn thing to do wit body parts.

Our fanbase supports our poor teams with new coaches far better than Iowa is right now. That's the premise of this (or my) argument and the facts support it.

LOL, how am I spinning anything? I'm stating my point of view, and your stating yours. I'm not arguing number, what I'm arguing is the "why" behind what's going on. That's the beauty of arguments, nobody is truly right. I've admitted that I think the CHA attendance is poor - and I would personally like to see it higher. Who wouldn't? But the fact that fans aren't paying $25.00 on a Wednesday night at 8:00 to watch a team struggle against Northern Colorado doesn't surprise me.

Plus, I'm just tryin' to lighten the mood, there is no need to get riled up over a message board conversation. I admit I'm biased, but no more biased than anybody else.

[ISUFan22]

I'm not getting on Iowa fans for not buying tickets. What about the thousands of people with tickets that are not showing up?

A number of us have mentioned this...and you keep bringing up $25 tickets to Northern Colorado.

The tickets have been bought...Hawk fans are just deciding to skip out on their team.

[everyyard]

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

And I bet if you take a look at those games, attendance was higher than it was when people had to pay $25 to get in.

My point is, this whole thing that ISU fans are more loyal than Iowa fans is based on nothing. Iowa has averaged higher attendance in almost all sports than ISU for years. Not to mention, a huge number of fans travel for bowl games, tournament games (yeah, those two tourney games), and so on. The fact that for the first 4 home games of the season attendance has been low is a moot point.

It's kind of funny how people can talk about me using "circular logic", when in fact they're doing the same thing. I'm not questioning how loyal the ISU fan base is - it's very loyal. Iowa increased season ticket sales over last year (I believe), in both football and basketball, despite the poor previous seasons. Iowa also averaged only 200 less people at basketball games than ISU did.

I understand the point that basketball attendance this year has been poor - it has been. The competition has been poor, the team has been poor, late nights on week nights, and high ticket prices make it difficult for many fans to want to get out there and watch the game. It's just how it is. ISU football fans showed up in droves this season - but you can't tell me that marketing and an attractive schedule (Oklahoma, Iowa, Texas, KSU, and CU) didn't play a part in that - because it definitely did.

Here is the deal. I would take Iowa State fans as more hardcore than almost any other school in the country. Especially in football. No other team possibly in the entire history of college football has had to endure the pain that is being an Iowa State fan. Has Iowa EVER lost a football game up 11 with 8 minutes left without the defense ever seeing the field?? Iowa fans get it pretty easy when a bad year is 6-6. Try losing to Iowa State for 15 consecutive years and never once seeing the post season or even .500 the entire stretch and then show me Iowa's loyal fans. ISU fans have been through all this and still turn out, still average a sell out at our stadium. Sure it isn't as big as Iowa's but look at our frickin history and look at the media attention iowa gets compared to ISU. Iowa is the furthest WEST and maybe most southern in a northern based conference. ISU is the NORTHERNMOST school in a southern based conference...which one do you think is tougher to recruit to regardless of history and town size? And we didn't build Hilton magic on conference titles, or 25 win seasons, or all americans. We built it on upsets, just above .500 records, and lots of passion for slightly above average teams that knew how to win at home and lost most road games. Floyd coached ISU to a record 23 win season prior to Eustachy's 32 wins...23 WINS??? Meaning Orr never even had that. ISU relies almost exclusively on an alumni base while Iowa thrives off of many fans who haven't ever set foot on campus...why? Media exposure and 25 years of successful football. And beating Iowa State 15 in a row had a lot to do with the casual fan not wanting to side with a known losing commodity. Who would choose that pain for themselves unless they had signed on with ISU as a student...not many. So Iowa has the tradition and Iowa fans get comfortable thumping their chest but ISU fans have come through for a long time for a product that is often average at best and usually worse. That is what separates Iowa fans from Iowa State.

[SouthernHawk]

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

I'm not getting on Iowa fans for not buying tickets. What about the thousands of people with tickets that are not showing up?

A number of us have mentioned this...and you keep bringing up $25 tickets to Northern Colorado.

The tickets have been bought...Hawk fans are just deciding to skip out on their team.

And as I've said before - that's not OK with me. Fine, let's go with the 9,500 tickets sold. Let's say 7,000 show up (which is about what do show up). That's half the arena. 7,000 fans in the seats for Northern Colorado, Louisiana Monroe, Eastern Illinois, and so on is understandable. I think around 10,000 (at most) were in the stands for Wake Forest. Again, not acceptable.

But, I'm holding out hope that for BT season, we'll see fans in the stands. I've tried to do my part in going to games - but as an out of work college student, there's only so many trips to IC you can make.

I don't think it's an issue of loyalty, it's an issue of fans being disappointed in how things have gone recently, and it's up to Lick to prove to them that there are reasons to attend games, not the other way around. ISU fans showed up for football games, bought a lot of tickets, and were generally disappointed in the season. Towards the end of the year, you saw more empty seats, and more standing room available at JTS. I'm just hoping (and yes, this is me being biased and "spinning"), that when better teams start coming to CHA, we'll see more people there supporting the team - and when the wins start coming, the fans will start showing up.

But there is no denying, right now, the Iowa basketball fan base hasn't had as much hope and things to cheer about as even the ISU football program has. ISU has had more success on the grid iron than Iowa has had on the hard wood - and fans see that. Right now, it's up to the Iowa coaches to prove to get the fans in the stands. They're there, they just really have no reason to go there. And "proving to a coach" isn't a big enough reason to spend a late week night watching a team lose. You need wins, you need cheap tickets (can't only rely on season ticket holders to show up), and you need hope.

[cyfanatic]

Originally Posted by everyyard

Here is the deal. I would take Iowa State fans as more hardcore than almost any other school in the country. Especially in football. No other team possibly in the entire history of college football has had to endure the pain that is being an Iowa State fan. Has Iowa EVER lost a football game up 11 with 8 minutes left without the defense ever seeing the field?? Iowa fans get it pretty easy when a bad year is 6-6. Try losing to Iowa State for 15 consecutive years and never once seeing the post season or even .500 the entire stretch and then show me Iowa's loyal fans. ISU fans have been through all this and still turn out, still average a sell out at our stadium. Sure it isn't as big as Iowa's but look at our frickin history and look at the media attention iowa gets compared to ISU. Iowa is the furthest WEST and maybe most southern in a northern based conference. ISU is the NORTHERNMOST school in a southern based conference...which one do you think is tougher to recruit to regardless of history and town size? And we didn't build Hilton magic on conference titles, or 25 win seasons, or all americans. We built it on upsets, just above .500 records, and lots of passion for slightly above average teams that new how to win at home and lost most road games. Floyd coached ISU to a record 23 win season prior to Eustachy's 32 wins...23 WINS??? Meaning Orr never even had that. ISU relies almost exclusively on an alumni base while Iowa thrives of of many fans who haven't ever set foot on campus...why? Media exposure and 25 years of successful football. And beating Iowa State 15 in a row had a lot to do with the casual fan not wanting to side with a known losing commodity. Who would choose that pain for themselves unless they had signed on with ISU as a student...not many. So Iowa has the tradition and Iowa fans get comfortable thumping their chest but ISU fans have come through for a long time for a product that is often average at best and usually worse. That is what separates Iowa fans from Iowa State.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!! Great post! One of the best ever on this message board! Great job!

[isucyfan]

[quote=SouthernHawk;279348]

I don't think it's an issue of loyalty

/quote]

Here's where you and I differ. I can't speak for every Cyclone, but if I had season tickets to Hilton, I would plan virtually my entire life around the games (within reason) and absolutely would not miss a game if we were 0-22. I enjoy watching our team now and we aren't world beaters.

[ISUFan22]

There is absolutely no way anywhere close to 10k fans were in CHA for that Wake Forest game...I'm sure of it.

I'm out...this is getting out of hand.

[CloneFan65]

All I know is this:

1) Iowa and ISU are both down this year in basketball.

2) ISU's head coach has publicly thanked the Cyclone fans (and students in particular) for their great passion this season despite their record.

3) Iowa's head coach said he was disappointed in Hawkeye fans and wished the atmosphere in IC could be more like Hilton.

Face it SouthernHawk, Cyclone fans are better. And you can be one. As a student no one will think you're a bandwagon fan for switching sides. You're always welcome to come to the good side. You don't have to jump in 100%. Start with a Women's Basketball game, and simply clap politely when they score. You don't need to wear a Cyclone hat or shirt. Maybe a pair of socks with Cy on them. No one will see. Soon Hilton magic will take over, and by next year you'll be in Cardinal and Gold face paint, screaming "Beat the Hawks!"

[isucyfan]

Originally Posted by CloneFan65

Face it SouthernHawk, Cyclone fans are better. And you can be one. As a student no one will think you're a bandwagon fan for switching sides. You're always welcome to come to the good side. You don't have to jump in 100%. Start with a Women's Basketball game, and simply clap politely when they score. You don't need to wear a Cyclone hat or shirt. Maybe a pair of socks with Cy on them. No one will see. Soon Hilton magic will take over, and by next year you'll be in Cardinal and Gold face paint, screaming "Beat the Hawks!"

Yes, it's kind of like beating an addiction to a nefarious drug.

So kick the Kirk-caine and crystal Seth and walk towards the light.

[everyyard]

Originally Posted by CloneFan65

All I know is this:

1) Iowa and ISU are both down this year in basketball.

2) ISU's head coach has publicly thanked the Cyclone fans (and students in particular) for their great passion this season despite their record.

3) Iowa's head coach said he was disappointed in Hawkeye fans and wished the atmosphere in IC could be more like Hilton.

Face it SouthernHawk, Cyclone fans are better. And you can be one. As a student no one will think you're a bandwagon fan for switching sides. You're always welcome to come to the good side. You don't have to jump in 100%. Start with a Women's Basketball game, and simply clap politely when they score. You don't need to wear a Cyclone hat or shirt. Maybe a pair of socks with Cy on them. No one will see. Soon Hilton magic will take over, and by next year you'll be in Cardinal and Gold face paint, screaming "Beat the Hawks!"

Awesome! Great advice for southernhawk.

[Iastfan112]

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

Kinda like how before this season, ISU averaged only 30,000 or so fans per game for football? ISU is a "basketball school", but how quickly would that change if all of the sudden the football program started winning championships and the basketball team fell into the abyss?

I'm going to cite the official NCCA averages and for the 3 years preceding this past attendance was: 46,171.......46,705....41,518. Also of interest in 2006 Iowa state was listed at being 102% of capacity for its games. While I realized these stats arent truly accurate I believe they suggest a much higher average than 30,000.


Oklahoma Sooners Official Athletic Site - Football

Site where I found my info

[SVT]

Here is a quick attendance comparison between the Iowa Men’s team, and the Iowa State Women’s team.

Iowa Men average 9,119 fans per game (according to their website)
ISU Women average 10,076 fans per game (according to cyclones.com)

ISU women get 957 more fans per home game than the Iowa Men

[tigershoops31]

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

And you know what I just realized? Arguing over who's crowd is bigger is like men arguing over a certain body part being bigger. It's just dumb.

I guess this is what we do in Iowa when all of our sports suck

Says the Hawkeye fan with the ******

[CycloneTony]

We sold record season tickets the last two years and every cyclone fan knew it wont be pretty years its just the difference between a hawk fan and a cyclone fan