Discombobulated, please help me out

isufrEEk · 05-18-2006, 05:35 PM

People keep saying the McDermott hasn't won anything. He won the Missouri Valley Tournament in 2004. I know, that sounds like Alford over at Iowa, but I remember a lot of ISU fans being very excited about winning the last Big-8 tournament. He also won the Northern Sun Conference title at Wayne State.

Wesley · 05-18-2006, 06:05 PM

Things just got better today for McD and worst for Will and Curtis: P J Tucker decided to officially hire an agent so he is LONG GONE. He was leading Texas score at 16 a game and 9 rebounds a game (6'-5").

Just wanted to say discombubulatyed makes this a more interesting board, so I hope he wakes up and remains engaged. He does bring a different viewpoint to the dinner table.

melkor · 05-18-2006, 06:06 PM

"1st Point=6-10 in the Big 12 (we can only go up from there, Discombobulated needs to take his blinders off because yes WE WERE 6-10 IN THE BIG 12) Come on not even 500"

Actually, we can actually go down from 6-10.

I'll show you how

5-11
4-12
3-13
2-14
1-15
0-16

I hope we don't run into those scenarios, but I'm afraid we just might.

We did have troubles winning at home last year, but we also won some games on the road which should be harder, so I don't know what to make of either thing.

bluehooper · 05-18-2006, 06:13 PM

We can't go down from receiving no post season invitation. It can't can't get any worse than being blown out by Iona at home and losing to Fresno State at home. McDermott has proven to be a winner everywhere he has been so I don't know why we would doubt his ability to do it at ISU.

melkor · 05-18-2006, 06:16 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
We can't go down from receiving no post season invitation. It can't can't get any worse than being blown out by Iona at home and losing to Fresno State at home. McDermott has proven to be a winner everywhere he has been so I don't know why we would doubt his ability to do it at ISU.
[/b][/quote]

I don't doubt that he could do it. I just don't believe it is a given that he will.

Wesley · 05-18-2006, 06:38 PM

As long as Colorado and Nebraska are in our league, that will be four wins the next two years. We then can win 4 of 6 at Hilton on the remainder. And missouri could stioll be a mess. I see no worse than 8-8 in Big 12 for the next two years if the team hustles. Cupcake preseason and postseason is worth 9 wins also. 17 wins or more in each of next two years with good scheduling. Hope that Bradley game is a winner for us. 17 wins plus 8-8 means NIT or NCAA.

By 2009, NCAA is talking about increasing the field from 65 teams to 80 teams. Borderline teams will then get in.

What I just reiterated above is highly possible even if we are newbies and will take awhile to get our act together. Colorado lost 10 seniors plus Roby. Nebraska has lost 3 of their players who are leaving if Alex Mariks does not come back. Collier could not hire either one of two high school coaches to replace Spinelli, so he settled on Slim Owens, an uncle of Marcus walker, one of the players, as his new associate coach. Now that PJ officially walked, things are looking brighter in Ames than some have us to believe.

In 2009 we will be winning 20 a season and have the four 07 schollies playing well. Hang in there, Rashon....

bluehooper · 05-18-2006, 10:10 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
We can't go down from receiving no post season invitation. It can't can't get any worse than being blown out by Iona at home and losing to Fresno State at home. McDermott has proven to be a winner everywhere he has been so I don't know why we would doubt his ability to do it at ISU.
[/b][/quote]

I don't doubt that he could do it. I just don't believe it is a given that he will.
[/b][/quote]

I completely agree with you, it is not a given he will be successful. It is just a lot more fun to look at the success he had at basketball graveyards like Wayne State and UNI and dream about his possibilities at a big time school in the Big 12. If he fails, he fails, but until that happens as long as he is the coach at Iowa State he has my 100% support and the optimism that comes along with that.

Gary_ISU · 05-18-2006, 11:04 PM

Melkor,

* He is familiar with Iowa State and the positives and negatives of being our coach.
I'm not really countering this point, because I guess I don't understand how this makes him better prepared for this job than anyone else. --I think knowing the difficulties of recruiting to ISU will help as well as just a famarlity with the state in terms of building relationships with fans and donors

* He is a great X's and O's coach that stresses defense. Defense wins championships.
What championships has it won McDermott? He hasn't won anything. People seem to forget that his team folded last year. -- He won a conference championship at Wayne State, a tourney championship at UNI and was in the Sweet 16 at Wayne State.

* He assembled a quality coach staff very quickly.
How do you know it is a quality coaching staff? They might be, but none of them have a very impressive resume in my opinion. -- Prileou was an assitant at Wichita State and Marquette, 2 schools with recent success. TJ has some good juco and AAU contacts and the assitants from UNI took them to the NCAA's the last 3 years. Seems okay to me.

* Given the time and circumstances, McDermott did a good job of getting a team put together for next year. He found some good recruits and it sounds like he did everything possible to get the current players to stay.
Whether or not he did a good job is yet to be decided. He did a good job of giving out scholarship. We can't say he did a good job untill the season is over. I am worried that we are pinning all of our hopes for next year on a bunch of new guys that have never played D-I ball -- Obviously we are no different than any other team in the country in terms of new recruits. Two star and 3 star recruits given the timing of everything is a good start. 

* His resume, look at what he did at UNI and Wayne State. He took programs that were down and after 2 years turned them into consistent winners.
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but he wasn't able to win championships at lower levels, what makes anyone think that he will do it at a higher level. I don't just want to win on a consistent basis (although I do wan't that obviously) I want to contend for and occasionally win conference titles and go beyond the first round of the NCAA tournament. The last two things are things McDermott has not shown to be capable of. --You do sound like a broken record that does not realize what McDermott has done in the past.

* He is enjoyable and interesting to listen to.
You must have heard something I haven't. I haven't heard him speak too many times, but would never have characterized him as enjoyable or interesting to listen to. I'll have to try and catch his speaking live a few more times. -- I would not classify him as entertaining but I did enjoy watching the Living in Iowa segment and enjoy hearing him talk about basketball.

* CHARACTER - I think this is the biggest plus of Greg McDermott. He has tremendous character. Living in Iowa on IPTV did a segment on him. He came across very humble and down to earth. On Deace's interview yesterday, Deace asked a question about Alex Thompson's maturity. McDermott's answer was basically his job was to develop and prepare young men for the rest of their lives. Basketball is his tool for doing that. From listening to his interview and learning more about him, I am incredibly impressed.
WM appeared to have tremendous character as well, and I still haven't seen anything to knock his character. There is the DI scheduling thing, but nothing has come from that and WM was very classy in his press conference after being fired. He said all of his players should stay at ISU and had nothing bad to say about the school or the administration that I can remember. -- This is where I really do not understand where you are going. I never mentioned anything about Morgan. I am talking about McDermott, the new ISU coach. If you are upset that Morgan is gone, why are you taking it out on McDermott? Pollard got rid of Morgan. 

Your other points hold some merit, and I hope that you are right and that he will be the best thing since sliced bread, but as much as I hope for that, I just can't get excited about him as the coach of the cyclones. I am less excited about Cyclone basketball now than I have ever been. Even during the road loss streak, larrygate, etc. --This makes no sense to me at all. 

To be fair McDermott seems to be going national in his recruiting efforts despite his early comments, and if he starts landing some big-time recruits (locally or nationally), or I see that Ross, Jiri and Jessan have all turned into monsters down low under his tutelage, I will start to be more excited and optomistic, but untill then, McDermott has a lot to prove to me. -- You did not actually believe McDermott was only going to recruit from the midwest or Iowa?

My final comment would be to evaluate McDermott fairly upon his credentials. Not based on if you think Morgan got a raw deal. That is the same thing a lot of people did to Morgan when he took over for LE.

Nedrick · 05-18-2006, 11:27 PM

Should we just save this thread for a year from now?

That way we will have one season behind us with McD and can look at the cold hard facts about where he took us.

At this point, everything is sheer speculation...

rbrooks0 · 05-18-2006, 11:50 PM

My post wasn't actually saying that we are going to do much better or better at all but to show others that we really werent that good. Proof was in the record. So yeah technically we could go down from 6-10 but we werent competing for anything special at least not a NCAA, NIT, or Big 12 Tournament.

The one question I have with the way are season ended.
Question: What would of been the difference if we would have been 1-15 in the big 12 last year or what if we are this year???
Answer: There would have been no difference last year or this year because neither teams would have been playing in the post season which I thought was the point.

Nothing good comes easy! We have the right guy in postion to lead Iowa State to consistant births to the NCAA! Time will only tell

Gary_ISU · 05-19-2006, 08:32 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
Should we just save this thread for a year from now?

That way we will have one season behind us with McD and can look at the cold hard facts about where he took us.

At this point, everything is sheer speculation...
[/b][/quote]

Just to clarify my point in the thread, I think McDermott was a great hire and will do great things at ISU. The bashing that Discombobulated has done in my opinion is a little ridiculous. Having said that, I think next year could be tough. A lot is riding on the development of the bigs and the new guards. I would label us a soild NIT team to just off the bubble. If things fall right, we can make the NCAA tourney.

melkor · 05-19-2006, 09:58 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
Melkor,

* He is familiar with Iowa State and the positives and negatives of being our coach.
I'm not really countering this point, because I guess I don't understand how this makes him better prepared for this job than anyone else. --I think knowing the difficulties of recruiting to ISU will help as well as just a famarlity with the state in terms of building relationships with fans and donors

* He is a great X's and O's coach that stresses defense. Defense wins championships.
What championships has it won McDermott? He hasn't won anything. People seem to forget that his team folded last year. -- He won a conference championship at Wayne State, a tourney championship at UNI and was in the Sweet 16 at Wayne State.Let's be fair here. Wayne State is Division II. I will concede that he has won a title, if you will concede that Division II is lightyears ways away from the BIG XII. If you get one guy with DI talent on your team in DII (for whatever reason), you can dominate.

* He assembled a quality coach staff very quickly.
How do you know it is a quality coaching staff? They might be, but none of them have a very impressive resume in my opinion. -- Prileou was an assitant at Wichita State and Marquette, 2 schools with recent success. TJ has some good juco and AAU contacts and the assitants from UNI took them to the NCAA's the last 3 years. Seems okay to me.I'm not saying they are terrible. I am saying that a juco/aau coach and a mid-major assistant are not that impressive.

* Given the time and circumstances, McDermott did a good job of getting a team put together for next year. He found some good recruits and it sounds like he did everything possible to get the current players to stay.
Whether or not he did a good job is yet to be decided. He did a good job of giving out scholarship. We can't say he did a good job untill the season is over. I am worried that we are pinning all of our hopes for next year on a bunch of new guys that have never played D-I ball -- Obviously we are no different than any other team in the country in terms of new recruits. Two star and 3 star recruits given the timing of everything is a good start. It is not necessarily a good start. Even if he got the absolute best of what was available, they still aren't as good as the guys the rest of the Big XII got. It is like saying we got the fastest slow people. I'm not saying that the recruits he got were bad, but based on what I've seen and factoring in that they are spring signees, I am very worried.

* His resume, look at what he did at UNI and Wayne State. He took programs that were down and after 2 years turned them into consistent winners.
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but he wasn't able to win championships at lower levels, what makes anyone think that he will do it at a higher level. I don't just want to win on a consistent basis (although I do wan't that obviously) I want to contend for and occasionally win conference titles and go beyond the first round of the NCAA tournament. The last two things are things McDermott has not shown to be capable of. --You do sound like a broken record that does not realize what McDermott has done in the past.DII does not equal DI much less high-major DI. I don't want to offend you but you sound like a broken record, constantly bringing up his success at Wayne State. That's like saying I could coach in college because I did a good job coaching my kid's little league team.

* He is enjoyable and interesting to listen to.
You must have heard something I haven't. I haven't heard him speak too many times, but would never have characterized him as enjoyable or interesting to listen to. I'll have to try and catch his speaking live a few more times. -- I would not classify him as entertaining but I did enjoy watching the Living in Iowa segment and enjoy hearing him talk about basketball.Well, I guess that you enjoy different things than I do.

* CHARACTER - I think this is the biggest plus of Greg McDermott. He has tremendous character. Living in Iowa on IPTV did a segment on him. He came across very humble and down to earth. On Deace's interview yesterday, Deace asked a question about Alex Thompson's maturity. McDermott's answer was basically his job was to develop and prepare young men for the rest of their lives. Basketball is his tool for doing that. From listening to his interview and learning more about him, I am incredibly impressed.
WM appeared to have tremendous character as well, and I still haven't seen anything to knock his character. There is the DI scheduling thing, but nothing has come from that and WM was very classy in his press conference after being fired. He said all of his players should stay at ISU and had nothing bad to say about the school or the administration that I can remember. -- This is where I really do not understand where you are going. I never mentioned anything about Morgan. I am talking about McDermott, the new ISU coach. If you are upset that Morgan is gone, why are you taking it out on McDermott? Pollard got rid of Morgan. I'm sorry I thought you were talking about why McDermott was a great choice as our coach. I was just commenting on Morgan our previous coach. Your last comments here are hilarious and way off-base. I am not upset over the firing of Morgan. I thought he should have gotten one more year, but I can accept that Pollard needed to make a change because of stuff I as an average fan could see behind the scenes. I just don't think that McDermott was the best option available for ISU. That is my opinion. Take it or leave it. I am not claiming to be 100% certain that I am right like many of the optomists here are. I feel the way I feel for the reasons I have stated. That is all. I find it very funny that I get attacked and called stupid for having an opinion, especially since I have what I consider pretty good points to back up my opinion.

Your other points hold some merit, and I hope that you are right and that he will be the best thing since sliced bread, but as much as I hope for that, I just can't get excited about him as the coach of the cyclones. I am less excited about Cyclone basketball now than I have ever been. Even during the road loss streak, larrygate, etc. --This makes no sense to me at all. I am sorry that you have difficulty understanding the written word.

To be fair McDermott seems to be going national in his recruiting efforts despite his early comments, and if he starts landing some big-time recruits (locally or nationally), or I see that Ross, Jiri and Jessan have all turned into monsters down low under his tutelage, I will start to be more excited and optomistic, but untill then, McDermott has a lot to prove to me. -- You did not actually believe McDermott was only going to recruit from the midwest or Iowa?I was going based on what McDermott himself said. Are you saying that I shouldn't believe the words coming out of his mouth? He still hasn't proved that he can bring in elite level talent, and the only guy that he has brought in that doesn't have midwest ties is McIntosh. And for the record, I don't care if he only recruits central iowa, as long as the players he brings in are quality BIX II material.

My final comment would be to evaluate McDermott fairly upon his credentials. Not based on if you think Morgan got a raw deal. That is the same thing a lot of people did to Morgan when he took over for LE.This comment of yours is just stupid. I don't care about WM anymore. You read that into my comments yourself. I care about the current state of the program and the current coach, and for the millionth time. I hope all of my concerns are baseless. I hope McDermott does wonderfully because that means good things for ISU, and if he is successful, I will have no problem admitting I was wrong.

[/b][/quote]

melkor · 05-19-2006, 10:00 AM

By the way. I got an e-mail from Discombobulated and he has been banned from this site that claimed that no one would be banned from. He was not given a reason or any kind of explanation. Yet people who call players and other posters names and continually attack people personally are still free to post. I find that extremely cowardly and hyppocritical of whoever is responsible for Dicombobulated's banning.

Gary_ISU · 05-19-2006, 01:50 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
Melkor,

* He is familiar with Iowa State and the positives and negatives of being our coach.
I'm not really countering this point, because I guess I don't understand how this makes him better prepared for this job than anyone else. --I think knowing the difficulties of recruiting to ISU will help as well as just a famarlity with the state in terms of building relationships with fans and donors

* He is a great X's and O's coach that stresses defense. Defense wins championships.
What championships has it won McDermott? He hasn't won anything. People seem to forget that his team folded last year. -- He won a conference championship at Wayne State, a tourney championship at UNI and was in the Sweet 16 at Wayne State.Let's be fair here. Wayne State is Division II. I will concede that he has won a title, if you will concede that Division II is lightyears ways away from the BIG XII. If you get one guy with DI talent on your team in DII (for whatever reason), you can dominate.

* He assembled a quality coach staff very quickly.
How do you know it is a quality coaching staff? They might be, but none of them have a very impressive resume in my opinion. -- Prileou was an assitant at Wichita State and Marquette, 2 schools with recent success. TJ has some good juco and AAU contacts and the assitants from UNI took them to the NCAA's the last 3 years. Seems okay to me.I'm not saying they are terrible. I am saying that a juco/aau coach and a mid-major assistant are not that impressive.

* Given the time and circumstances, McDermott did a good job of getting a team put together for next year. He found some good recruits and it sounds like he did everything possible to get the current players to stay.
Whether or not he did a good job is yet to be decided. He did a good job of giving out scholarship. We can't say he did a good job untill the season is over. I am worried that we are pinning all of our hopes for next year on a bunch of new guys that have never played D-I ball -- Obviously we are no different than any other team in the country in terms of new recruits. Two star and 3 star recruits given the timing of everything is a good start. It is not necessarily a good start. Even if he got the absolute best of what was available, they still aren't as good as the guys the rest of the Big XII got. It is like saying we got the fastest slow people. I'm not saying that the recruits he got were bad, but based on what I've seen and factoring in that they are spring signees, I am very worried.

* His resume, look at what he did at UNI and Wayne State. He took programs that were down and after 2 years turned them into consistent winners.
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but he wasn't able to win championships at lower levels, what makes anyone think that he will do it at a higher level. I don't just want to win on a consistent basis (although I do wan't that obviously) I want to contend for and occasionally win conference titles and go beyond the first round of the NCAA tournament. The last two things are things McDermott has not shown to be capable of. --You do sound like a broken record that does not realize what McDermott has done in the past.DII does not equal DI much less high-major DI. I don't want to offend you but you sound like a broken record, constantly bringing up his success at Wayne State. That's like saying I could coach in college because I did a good job coaching my kid's little league team.

* He is enjoyable and interesting to listen to.
You must have heard something I haven't. I haven't heard him speak too many times, but would never have characterized him as enjoyable or interesting to listen to. I'll have to try and catch his speaking live a few more times. -- I would not classify him as entertaining but I did enjoy watching the Living in Iowa segment and enjoy hearing him talk about basketball.Well, I guess that you enjoy different things than I do.

* CHARACTER - I think this is the biggest plus of Greg McDermott. He has tremendous character. Living in Iowa on IPTV did a segment on him. He came across very humble and down to earth. On Deace's interview yesterday, Deace asked a question about Alex Thompson's maturity. McDermott's answer was basically his job was to develop and prepare young men for the rest of their lives. Basketball is his tool for doing that. From listening to his interview and learning more about him, I am incredibly impressed.
WM appeared to have tremendous character as well, and I still haven't seen anything to knock his character. There is the DI scheduling thing, but nothing has come from that and WM was very classy in his press conference after being fired. He said all of his players should stay at ISU and had nothing bad to say about the school or the administration that I can remember. -- This is where I really do not understand where you are going. I never mentioned anything about Morgan. I am talking about McDermott, the new ISU coach. If you are upset that Morgan is gone, why are you taking it out on McDermott? Pollard got rid of Morgan. I'm sorry I thought you were talking about why McDermott was a great choice as our coach. I was just commenting on Morgan our previous coach. Your last comments here are hilarious and way off-base. I am not upset over the firing of Morgan. I thought he should have gotten one more year, but I can accept that Pollard needed to make a change because of stuff I as an average fan could see behind the scenes. I just don't think that McDermott was the best option available for ISU. That is my opinion. Take it or leave it. I am not claiming to be 100% certain that I am right like many of the optomists here are. I feel the way I feel for the reasons I have stated. That is all. I find it very funny that I get attacked and called stupid for having an opinion, especially since I have what I consider pretty good points to back up my opinion.

Your other points hold some merit, and I hope that you are right and that he will be the best thing since sliced bread, but as much as I hope for that, I just can't get excited about him as the coach of the cyclones. I am less excited about Cyclone basketball now than I have ever been. Even during the road loss streak, larrygate, etc. --This makes no sense to me at all. I am sorry that you have difficulty understanding the written word.

To be fair McDermott seems to be going national in his recruiting efforts despite his early comments, and if he starts landing some big-time recruits (locally or nationally), or I see that Ross, Jiri and Jessan have all turned into monsters down low under his tutelage, I will start to be more excited and optomistic, but untill then, McDermott has a lot to prove to me. -- You did not actually believe McDermott was only going to recruit from the midwest or Iowa?I was going based on what McDermott himself said. Are you saying that I shouldn't believe the words coming out of his mouth? He still hasn't proved that he can bring in elite level talent, and the only guy that he has brought in that doesn't have midwest ties is McIntosh. And for the record, I don't care if he only recruits central iowa, as long as the players he brings in are quality BIX II material.

My final comment would be to evaluate McDermott fairly upon his credentials. Not based on if you think Morgan got a raw deal. That is the same thing a lot of people did to Morgan when he took over for LE.This comment of yours is just stupid. I don't care about WM anymore. You read that into my comments yourself. I care about the current state of the program and the current coach, and for the millionth time. I hope all of my concerns are baseless. I hope McDermott does wonderfully because that means good things for ISU, and if he is successful, I will have no problem admitting I was wrong.

Here is what I do not understand, every single positive thing that I or anyone else has to say about McDermott you reject. He has been on the job for 3 months and according to you has not done anything correct. How can a coach get to the level he has and be as incompetent as you claim? If you are okay with Morgan leaving and do not like McDermott, please list 3-5 coaches that Pollard should have hired instead.

I am not an eternal optimist about ISU sports. I think the football team will be 7-5 or 6-6 because that is what Mac is capable of doing. I look at McDermott and I see a guy who is capable of winning consistently at ISU. Time will prove me correct.
Later

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[/b][/quote]

Jeremy · 05-19-2006, 01:59 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
By the way. I got an e-mail from Discombobulated and he has been banned from this site that claimed that no one would be banned from. He was not given a reason or any kind of explanation. Yet people who call players and other posters names and continually attack people personally are still free to post. I find that extremely cowardly and hyppocritical of whoever is responsible for Dicombobulated's banning.
[/b][/quote]

melkor-
I respect your opinion but I need to remind you that I run this site by spending all my extra money for something that I feel strongly about. I have invested a great amount of time and money into this site and when I get 50+/- messages regarding one user, I feel I need to take some sort of action. I'm doing this site as a hobby and not as a business. I said I wouldn't ban anybody unless they cross the line several times with personal attacks. You might not have seen them all but there were some that people found quite offensive.