Visiting Recruits

[Balls]

I never said I want ISU to lose.

But yes, I would rather see ISU play well and up to their potential even if they end up with fewer points on some scoreboard, then to have then play poor and luckily pull out a win.

Of course the obvious is we all want them to play perfect and win.

[Balls]

Darts180. Nice to see others have some expectations for this team beyond just winning. It's nice to know people appreciate well executed football.

Thanks!

[ISUCY11]

as i went back to my truck to drink a lil more during halftime, i followed Kenton Walker, Andre McFarland and Craig Brackins out of the main gate. I doubt they saw us come back and win...

[ISUFan22]

Originally Posted by Balls

I never said I want ISU to lose.

But yes, I would rather see ISU play well and up to their potential even if they end up with fewer points on some scoreboard, then to have then play poor and luckily pull out a win.

Of course the obvious is we all want them to play perfect and win.

You clearly stated you'd rather lose playing well than win while not playing well.

Did you forget or just wanting to backpeddle now?

Originally Posted by Balls

Darts180. Nice to see others have some expectations for this team beyond just winning. It's nice to know people appreciate well executed football.

What you don't know is I coach youth football, successfully mind you. But, what do I know...I have no concept for fundamentals and execution. It's all dumb luck...

[crash_zone]

if they missed the end, that's too bad. it would have been a great event for them to see (to bad they couldn't have showed up at halftime instead of kickoff)

[BryceC]

Ever heard of Prefontaine. He competed against himself, pushed himself to the limit every time. He gaged his success not by others, but on whether or not he gave absolutely everything he had and did his absolute best.

Last I heard, Pre won quite a few races, and he was very competitive with the Swedish guy or whatever, I can't remember his name.

And let me tell you one thing, you build a tradition by winning. You said earlier that by performing well you build a tradition. That's absolute bullcrap. You could play a great game every game and lose them all, and you'd be a national laughingstock.

We all want the team to perform better. Every one of us does. It's just that some of us want to give this coaching staff a chance to turn it around. I hope that the team comes together here for the end of the season and really plays hard for themselves, their school, and also their coach. Because it will be his job they are saving right now. If we continue to see spotty performances and effort that just isn't there, then we'll know the team has given up on him, and that's a lot more important than a bunch of random dudes complaining on a message board.

Ohio State had a pretty decent year in 2002 by "winning ugly". I would take that kind of success any day of the week, and so would 99% of fans. Let's get serious here. We want the team to play up to expectations, and we're going to see a lot of what we can expect out of this team next week. If we win against Nebraska and use that to catapult to a good year, then all of this talk will be for nothing.

If we lose to Nebraska however and go on a 3 game losing streak against them, OK, and TT… I imagine there will be a few of you warming up the tar.

[ISUFan22]

Originally Posted by BryceC

And let me tell you one thing, you build a tradition by winning. You said earlier that by performing well you build a tradition. That's absolute bullcrap. You could play a great game every game and lose them all, and you'd be a national laughingstock.

Excellent point Bryce.

Anyone recall the Buffalo Bills and their 5 straight Super Bowl appearances? What is the biggest thing people remember and say about that team?

How they were able to dominate the AFC for so long? Or how embarrassing it was to get to 5 title games in a row and not win a single one?

Anything I ever read or listen to...stresses the latter.

In football and most every other sport, winning is everything. This isn’t like NASCAR, where if you don’t win but still race well, ya get points and money. There’s a winner and a loser – nothing else.

Me? I’d rather win, regardless of the score.

[Balls]

Since you seek clarity, let me state it again as you clearly miss stated. I said "To me it's about playing up to your potential. I would rather play really well and lose then play really bad and win."

I did not say as you stated that I'd "rather lose playing well than win while not playing well."

Feels like a Seinfeld episode, but there is a extreme difference. In my comment the emphasis is on playing well versus not playing well, where winning is secondary. While yours stresses losing over winning, where playing well is secondary. Big difference, so please be clear in quoting or telling others what I said.

What's interesting is in your claim to coach youth football you talk about fundamentals and execution. Not about winning the game. You also sarcastically claim your success is not dumb luck. From what ISU controlled on UNI's field goal attempt, was it more ISU execution and fundamentals that lead to the missed UNI field goal or luck.

For those reasons I think you do get it. If you had to choose one, would you rather have your team properly display the fundamentals, execute well, and overall have a great game and come out with a one point loss, or would you rather have them not execute, lack all fundamentals, and overall have a poor game and come out with a one point win.

I would hope you could show the pride and achievement in playing well despite losing versus deciding to have them play bad but end up with a win. Again, I stress playing well over playing bad. If so, you would too rather "play really well and lose then play really bad and win."

[ISUFan22]

Originally Posted by Balls

Since you seek clarity, let me state it again as you clearly miss stated. I said "To me it's about playing up to your potential. I would rather play really well and lose then play really bad and win."

I did not say as you stated that I'd "rather lose playing well than win while not playing well."

Feels like a Seinfeld episode, but there is a extreme difference. In my comment the emphasis is on playing well versus not playing well, where winning is secondary. While yours stresses losing over winning, where playing well is secondary. Big difference, so please be clear in quoting or telling others what I said.

Oh for the love of God. Now you are nit-picking the order I put the two. Puh-lease. You said something very, very silly. Just be a man and admit it.

Originally Posted by Balls

What's interesting is in your claim to coach youth football you talk about fundamentals and execution. Not about winning the game. You also sarcastically claim your success is not dumb luck. From what ISU controlled on UNI's field goal attempt, was it more ISU execution and fundamentals that lead to the missed UNI field goal or luck.

It's no secret ISU failed to execute properly on many plays in the game Saturday. Those missed opportunities led to the field goal that fortunately went wide right. On that play, the Panthers failed to execute properly.

Originally Posted by Balls

For those reasons I think you do get it. If you had to choose one, would you rather have your team properly display the fundamentals, execute well, and overall have a great game and come out with a one point loss, or would you rather have them not execute, lack all fundamentals, and overall have a poor game and come out with a one point win.

We'd all love good execution. With good execution though, comes wins. Rarely do teams execute the entire game well and lose. In those cases, you're looking at a complete miss-match of talent. The only game we have like that this year is the Texas game. And even then, if we execute properly, we can win that game. So this whole trip you're on is a very rare occurrence.

And in the end, as Bryce stated, winning is #1. Losing close games doesn't get you anywhere. Look at last season, losing 5 close games. If we executed better yet still lost - does that change anything from the fan or media perspective? No, we're still 7-5...still a team that fell short of winning the North.

Originally Posted by Balls

I would hope you could show the pride and achievement in playing well despite losing versus deciding to have them play bad but end up with a win. Again, I stress playing well over playing bad. If so, you would too rather "play really well and lose then play really bad and win."

Every good coach is going to coach both angles. Last season we lost our 2nd to last game, one that we really only didn't play well on 2-3 plays. This team had defeated us 33-0 earlier in the season and when playing them the 2nd time, we lost in OT. So while we lost, the players and coaches took pride in knowing we had improved significantly over the course of the season.

This year, we won our first game in sloppy fashion. So while the kids were praised for winning, they had a very hard, back-to-the-basics practice the next day in order to drive home the correct way of doing things after failing to do them consistently the previous day.

So I am fully aware of both aspects of football. However, I'd rather have that win than a loss. And so would the players.

[Balls]

BryceC. Not trying to be rude or sarcastic here. But you claim to get serious. I agree with several of your points including wanting the team to perform better and to come together.

But to claim to get serious and also to sarcastically state that I said "that by performing well you build a tradition." Then state "That's absolute bullcrap. You could play a great game every game and lose them all, and you'd be a national laughingstock."

That's not being serious as it's not realistic. To think a team could play a great game every game and lose them is just not realistic. I can't think of more then a couple games in the last couple years that ISU would not have won if they had played perfect. Thus my comment was not even close to being "absolute bullcrap." Please don't be hypocritical.

I also don't think it's unrealistic or anti-ISU to openly think that this coaching staff cannot deliver the expectations of the players, school, and fans. Wanting a coaching change if one thinks the current staff is not capable of delivering these expectations is not being anti-ISU or a bad fan. I think it's being pro-ISU and a good fan based an a different and very realistic perspective. I think it's okay to have independent thoughts and state them on a fan forum. I don't think one needs to get a bad rap to want what one thinks will improve the team. (not saying that you don't think this is okay, just stating as I get the feeling, no names, that many just want all fans to be quiet and step in line.. I don't think rocking the boat is bad if the boat needs rocking). I think by not standing up and stating the need for a coaching change if you feel this current coaching staff isn't capable would be anti-ISU and a bad fan. I think we need to stand up as donors, alumni, and fans for the school when we think a change is needed. Doesn't mean everyone has to, but to be labeled as negative is wrong. I think it's being positive and excited about wanting and accepting necessary change.

This post is well intended and I am not free of sarcasm or emotion. But I just dislike seeing people labeled bad or anti-ISU because they have independent opinions and have the willingness to share them and stick to them despite criticism from the majority.

[Balls]

ISUFan22. I thought your last post was a very good one overall. But your "Oh for the love of God. Now you are nit-picking the order I put the two. Puh-lease. You said something very, very silly. Just be a man and admit it." is way out of line.

"To me it's about playing up to your potential. I would rather play really well and lose then play really bad and win."

There is nothing silly about that.

There's also a difference between the two comments (I put in Seinfeld to stress the humor about it) and correctly quoting is important if you plan to point out someone else's posts.

I know you might be too deep to admit it, but if you had to answer only yes or no to my question about having the choice with your youth team, I think you would pick fundamentals and execution or winning in that example. I'm not asking for you to answer, but asking you to realty think about it. I'm I nit-picking? Maybe, but I didn't start by quoting you and calling it silly. I started in response to defend what I think is a very valid and correct approach to being a successful football team where playing well trumps winning. Of course I want to win, and my overall point being that the playing well is the focus, and winning is secondary (it's a result of playing well). You don't have to agree, but to call someone out and call it silly is silly in itself. If you don't like to be called out in return and nit-picked, then don't call-out other people's comments, opinions, and perspectives and call them silly. As you might say, be a man.

[darts180]

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

You clearly stated you'd rather lose playing well than win while not playing well.

Did you forget or just wanting to backpeddle now?



What you don't know is I coach youth football, successfully mind you. But, what do I know...I have no concept for fundamentals and execution. It's all dumb luck...

So then ISU, I ask you (seriously), why are we such a fundementally bad team??
The receivers run horrible routes, the O-line can't block to save Bret's life, and the defense can't tackle, or cover a tight end.
How come it's this bad??? I mean I know you are of the opinion that the players are all at fault, and the coaches save the day. But come on, is there a worse team fundementally, other than Michigan State, than us???

[ISUFan22]

Originally Posted by Balls

ISUFan22. I thought your last post was a very good one overall. But your "Oh for the love of God. Now you are nit-picking the order I put the two. Puh-lease. You said something very, very silly. Just be a man and admit it." is way out of line.

"To me it's about playing up to your potential. I would rather play really well and lose then play really bad and win."

There is nothing silly about that.

There's also a difference between the two comments (I put in Seinfeld to stress the humor about it) and correctly quoting is important if you plan to point out someone else's posts.

I know you might be too deep to admit it, but if you had to answer only yes or no to my question about having the choice with your youth team, I think you would pick fundamentals and execution or winning in that example. I'm not asking for you to answer, but asking you to realty think about it. I'm I nit-picking? Maybe, but I didn't start by quoting you and calling it silly. I started in response to defend what I think is a very valid and correct approach to being a successful football team where playing well trumps winning. Of course I want to win, and my overall point being that the playing well is the focus, and winning is secondary (it's a result of playing well). You don't have to agree, but to call someone out and call it silly is silly in itself. If you don't like to be called out in return and nit-picked, then don't call-out other people's comments, opinions, and perspectives and call them silly. As you might say, be a man.

If all you can do is refute how I am approaching your topic rather than the actual point I am making...well then...you've just conceded. Nothing further needed here.

Originally Posted by darts180

So then ISU, I ask you (seriously), why are we such a fundementally bad team??
The receivers run horrible routes, the O-line can't block to save Bret's life, and the defense can't tackle, or cover a tight end.
How come it's this bad??? I mean I know you are of the opinion that the players are all at fault, and the coaches save the day. But come on, is there a worse team fundementally, other than Michigan State, than us???

On defense...it's because we are very young. We've got players out of position a fair amount. So they have to make out of position tackles. A few of the guys on defense have the speed to make up for their mistakes yet most do not. Those not quick enough are easily exposed when not in the correct place.

On offense, I have no idea what is going on with the receivers. We aught to have someone open on about every single play. Offensive line, I'm not sure it's fundamentals...I think we've got 2-3 good linemen and the others are just average at best.

[BryceC]

Hypocritical - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

Clearly I'm not being hypocritical, because that wouldn't even make sense.

Obviously I was being sarcastic. If you play well, you will win some games unless the talent level is so disparate it wouldn't make a difference, and we aren't that way at all. It's true, your comment wasn't bullcrap. But winning is how you build tradition, and it's the only way you build tradition. When you talk to OSU fans or Nebraska fans, and ask them what it takes to have tradition, they aren't going to say, "Going out there and giving it your all even if you come up short." They are going to say, "Just win, baby."

I also don't think it's unrealistic or anti-ISU to openly think that this coaching staff cannot deliver the expectations of the players, school, and fans. Wanting a coaching change if one thinks the current staff is not capable of delivering these expectations is not being anti-ISU or a bad fan. I think it's being pro-ISU and a good fan based an a different and very realistic perspective. I think it's okay to have independent thoughts and state them on a fan forum. I don't think one needs to get a bad rap to want what one thinks will improve the team. (not saying that you don't think this is okay, just stating as I get the feeling, no names, that many just want all fans to be quiet and step in line.. I don't think rocking the boat is bad if the boat needs rocking). I think by not standing up and stating the need for a coaching change if you feel this current coaching staff isn't capable would be anti-ISU and a bad fan. I think we need to stand up as donors, alumni, and fans for the school when we think a change is needed. Doesn't mean everyone has to, but to be labeled as negative is wrong. I think it's being positive and excited about wanting and accepting necessary change.

When did I say any of this? Actually, I am very supportive of people who have different opinions, I have said it multitudinous times on this board, and I stand by it. I wasn't attacking your opinion on wanting Mac fired (although I personally believe it's too early in the year to be calling for his head) I was attacking the notion that by just "playing well" you build tradition. If you want to keep deflecting my statements by saying I'm personally attacking you, that's fine, but I never did that. Also, I never even mentioned anything about Mac being fired, except that if the team doesn't turn it around by the end of the year, that in my eyes means the team gave up on him and that would definitely be grounds for dismissal.

So please, I'll stop being "hypocritical" if you stop putting words in my mouth.

[TheHelgo]

So, how about those 'Visiting Recruits'? :)