Play calling and crisis management

ISUFan22 · 10-01-2006, 11:08 AM

We aught to be able to out coach UNI enough to go into the 4th quarter with a comfortable lead.

Instead, we're in a tight game that relied on a missed kick to win. Why?

I did think the play calling last night was about as good as it's been this season. If you look at the plays, the ones that went sour were passing plays where Meyer had little/no protection. When we did run the ball, our two backs got over 4 yards a carry. I didn't really see any play calls that made me cringe. The team came out flat though, especially after the early turnover.

So maybe that's where the coaching staff needs to improve - crisis management. Each time this year we've had something bad happen, we've folded up shop for a while. Seriously think about it...each game when we had droughts on offense and poor play on defense...came after an adverse play.

We can't do that. Football is all about adversity. I've rarely watched a game when both teams did not face some sort of adversity. It's the teams that can rise up in the face of such adversity and overcome it - that are successful. So far we've overcome these things...however...we're needing last minute heroics to do it.

I'm not sure what the staff can do to fix this...but they must recognize it and do something to rectify it.

rjslats · 10-01-2006, 12:03 PM

I agree for the most part, but fourth and 2, three tight ends, and a run off tackle was the single worst play call I've ever seen them make.

ISUFan22 · 10-01-2006, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by rjslats

I agree for the most part, but fourth and 2, three tight ends, and a run off tackle was the single worst play call I've ever seen them make.

When Hicks and Scales have been getting over 4 yards a carry all game...why is that a bad call?

cstrunk · 10-01-2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

When Hicks and Scales have been getting over 4 yards a carry all game...why is that a bad call?

Because UNI was expecting the run up the middle because that's just about all we ever do in those situations, except usually with Kock. Kock is enough of a bowling ball/battering ram that he usually is able to get it in just about any situation. However, with Hicks/Scales they get hit once, and go down. Yes, Hicks is a "punishing" running back to an extent, but he averages 4 yards per carry because the defense isn't always keyed on the run, because we have good passing attack. But when it's 4th and 2, and they are expecting a run up the middle, it's really not too hard to defend if that's what comes. If we weren't going to use Kock in that 4th and 2 situation, I would have rather seen a quick option play to use Meyer and Scales' speed around the outside or a bootleg misdirection pass to a TE (that 70-80% of the time sees a wide open TE for an easy conversion) instead of a dive from Hicks.

ISUAlum2002 · 10-01-2006, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by cstrunk

Because UNI was expecting the run up the middle because that's just about all we ever do in those situations, except usually with Kock. Kock is enough of a bowling ball/battering ram that he usually is able to get it in just about any situation. However, with Hicks/Scales they get hit once, and go down. Yes, Hicks is a "punishing" running back to an extent, but he averages 4 yards per carry because the defense isn't always keyed on the run, because we have good passing attack. But when it's 4th and 2, and they are expecting a run up the middle, it's really not too hard to defend if that's what comes. If we weren't going to use Kock in that 4th and 2 situation, I would have rather seen a quick option play to use Meyer and Scales' speed around the outside or a bootleg misdirection pass to a TE (that 70-80% of the time sees a wide open TE for an easy conversion) instead of a dive from Hicks.

How about a naked bootleg instead? I mean, mix it up some!! UNI had stuffed the box with about 9 players! Why couldn't we audible out of it?

Hicks is a "punishing" back, but only when he's taking a defender 1 on 1, not when he's up against 9 defenders.

chuckd4735 · 10-01-2006, 02:36 PM

McCarney is not our offesive coordinator, it Barney Cotton. Given McCarney has so push on what plays get called, but when u have a play clock and the call comes in, it kind of hard to say you disagree with the call and change it, especially in that situation. Barney Cotton IMO is not a good offensive coordinator, and if this season does go sour, I think he will be the only one who looses his job. But I am not going to start this talk, our goal was to go to the Big 12 Championship game this year, and so far we have lost one conference game that no one in america thought we would win. I'll pass judgement when our goal is not met, but so far, we are still in the race for the big 12 north!

darts180 · 10-01-2006, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by chuckd4735

McCarney is not our offesive coordinator, it Barney Cotton. Given McCarney has so push on what plays get called, but when u have a play clock and the call comes in, it kind of hard to say you disagree with the call and change it, especially in that situation. Barney Cotton IMO is not a good offensive coordinator, and if this season does go sour, I think he will be the only one who looses his job. But I am not going to start this talk, our goal was to go to the Big 12 Championship game this year, and so far we have lost one conference game that no one in america thought we would win. I'll pass judgement when our goal is not met, but so far, we are still in the race for the big 12 north!

Are you kidding me??? Mac has no say on the offensive plays called??? Then he should be fired right this second, due to lack of institutional control within HIS OWN PROGRAM.
I mean I understand we have to rally around Mac here in the bunker, but your point, if true, is an absolute indictment of how bad this head coach truly is.
Of course being the stand up guy that Mac is, I am sure that he will take all of the responsibility for this, and never throw the assistants under the bus to save his own ***.

chuckd4735 · 10-01-2006, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by darts180

Are you kidding me??? Mac has no say on the offensive plays called??? Then he should be fired right this second, due to lack of institutional control within HIS OWN PROGRAM.
I mean I understand we have to rally around Mac here in the bunker, but your point, if true, is an absolute indictment of how bad this head coach truly is.
Of course being the stand up guy that Mac is, I am sure that he will take all of the responsibility for this, and never throw the assistants under the bus to save his own ***.

I never said he has no say, I was just saying the intial play that is called is not done by Mac, and if he wants to change it it is kind of hard with a play clock running. I personally think Mac needs to get on Mr. Cotton *** and get him to be a little more agressive. Cotton was conservative with Nebraska, and has been with Iowa State since he has been here.

Again, I am not saying Mac has no say, but I dont think people understand that the intial call is not called by Mac, it is called by Cotton, and when you have a play clock running, unless you call a timeout, it nearly impossible to change the call that comes down.

ISUFan22 · 10-01-2006, 02:59 PM

Amusing.

If we throw the ball on that play and it falls incomplete or Meyer gets sacked...fans will gripe about not running it...citing the 4 yards per carry by Hicks and Scales.

Damned if you do...damned if ya don't.

I don't care if we run the ball or throw it there...our players aught to be able to execute and convert against a UNI on 4th and 2. It's that simple.

chuckd4735 · 10-01-2006, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Amusing.

If we throw the ball on that play and it falls incomplete or Meyer gets sacked...fans will gripe about not running it...citing the 4 yards per carry by Hicks and Scales.

Damned if you do...damned if ya don't.

I don't care if we run the ball or throw it there...our players aught to be able to execute and convert against a UNI on 4th and 2. It's that simple.

I persoanlly think we should of kicked the field goal...but that is just me.

darts180 · 10-02-2006, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Amusing.

If we throw the ball on that play and it falls incomplete or Meyer gets sacked...fans will gripe about not running it...citing the 4 yards per carry by Hicks and Scales.

Damned if you do...damned if ya don't.

I don't care if we run the ball or throw it there...our players aught to be able to execute and convert against a UNI on 4th and 2. It's that simple.

Yes ISU, I agree, there is no reason that we can't pick up a measly two yards agains a 1AA school.
However, let me offer this as an alternative to your "it's all on the players, but not when they make plays to overcome the awful schemes they are put in, then it's because of Dan perspective,"
Maybe, and I am saying MAYBE, that if the things that we are doing are becoming pretty obvious to the people in the stands, then coaches who are paid to scout and plan to counteract what it is we do, should have a real handle on it, and be able to stop it.
Maybe, and again I say MAYBE, Dan wouldn't look so lost out there if he were to step outside of his own little box, and kick Barney C in his *** and say "hey, why don't we do something that will actually surprise people???"
or "hey John, lets get after them, and take away something."
I think that would be Dan's job, I mean he said all off season that he had learned from past mistakes. And he wasn't going to do that again (of course it's happened in every game but Texas where it didn't matter)
But hey at least I know he's coaching, because he paces 3-4 miles and claps his hands a lot.

Again I said MAYBE this is right

Ficklone02 · 10-03-2006, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by ISUAlum2002

How about a naked bootleg instead? I mean, mix it up some!! UNI had stuffed the box with about 9 players! Why couldn't we audible out of it?

Hicks is a "punishing" back, but only when he's taking a defender 1 on 1, not when he's up against 9 defenders.

I agree that in a situation like that there should be some leverage for the qb to audible.....two play calls....one run and one pass, and let Brett read the defense and decide. I don't care who you're up against. Its just plain stupid to try and force the ball up the gut if they've got that many guys in the box.

Come to think of it.....shouldn't we be using this approach no matter the down. Shouldn't Brett be able to read the defense and pick one of two plays depending on how many they have in the box? Heck, maybe they already do some of that and I'm just an armchair qb who can tell the difference......anybody have an opinion on this??

billdo00 · 10-03-2006, 01:39 PM

i have no problem with the run but why go with stevie instead of kock. all he does is get first downs and touchdowns and it seems like they love getting in those situations solely to use kock. he is an intense player and one of the best short yardage backs in the country.

avery_larry · 10-03-2006, 02:25 PM

Can someone find me stats of all the plays called when we went for it on 4th down? Include WHO runs (ie--Kock). I'm thinking that maybe Hicks up the middle isn't as predictable as everyone thinks.

But then again--what are the nationwide stats for 4th down play calling? I mean, you almost guarantee that it's 4th and short so . . .

But I'm not an expert.

klerme · 10-03-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Amusing.

If we throw the ball on that play and it falls incomplete or Meyer gets sacked...fans will gripe about not running it...citing the 4 yards per carry by Hicks and Scales.

Damned if you do...damned if ya don't.

I don't care if we run the ball or throw it there...our players aught to be able to execute and convert against a UNI on 4th and 2. It's that simple.

In my mind, the problem wasn't the decision whether we run or pass, it was the personnel that we had in the game for the play. We took out Blythe, Davis and Flynn, and ran a 3 TE package with Kock and Stevie. Therefore we were not putting any pressure to stretch out their defense. Since this was 4th and 2 (almost 3), not 4th and 1, not putting any pressure on the defense to consider pass is not a good decision. That is why, in that formation, I would have been much happier (make or miss) with a play action call with 2 TE's flooding right and either Kock or the 3rd TE doing a fake block action and then slipping out to the left. As jacked up as UNI's defense was, we either would have had an easy TD on a quick throw to a TE right if the defense bit on the fake hand-off, or Bret would have the option to throw back left - a play that works repeatedly at both the college and pro level. If the decision is to run, then leave Blythe and Flynn or Davis in the game and stretch out the defense to give the OL better targets to block. Then if they put 9 in the box, you call an automatic audible to Blythe on a fade or fade-stop route. This is not rocket science.