Mac vs History

redskinsisu · 10-12-2006, 04:38 PM

Records of three previous coaches in conference play before Mac (Duncan, Criner, Walden also lumped the one game Banker coached after Criner was fired).
· Total of 16 seasons for the three coaches
· One winning record in the conference at 4-3 in 1989.
· And 0 at .500 compared to Mac’s four seasons at .500.
· 0 Bowl appearances or wins compared to Mac’s five bowl appearances and Mac’s two bowl wins (only bowl wins in school history).

1994 0-6-1
1993 2-5
1992 2-5
1991 1-5-1
1990 2-4-1
1989 4-3
1988 3-4 (3-5 if you count loss to future conference foe of Baylor)
1987 2-5
1986 3-4
1985 3-4
1984 0-5-2 (0-6-2 if you count loss to future conference foe of A&M)
1983 3-4
1982 1-5-1
1981 2-4-1
1980 2-5
1979 2-5 (2-6 if you count loss to future conference foe of Texas)

Records of Bruce and Majors in conference play (considered ISU’s last two good coaches before Mac).

Total of 12 seasons
Four winning seasons (one is .500 if you count loss to A&M) so three winning seasons.
And 0 seasons at .500 compared to Mac’s four seasons at .500
4 Bowl Appearances combined and 0 wins compared to Mac’s five bowl appearances and two wins.
I understand it is easier to make a bowl in Mac’s history. However, keep in mind that Majors made a bowl in 1972 with a 5-5-1 record and lost to finish 5-6-1. So if you just look at 8 win seasons that led to bowl games, Bruce and Majors have three appearances and Mac has one appearance. Bruce and Majors have 0 wins and Mac has one win.
Bruce had three winning seasons (overall record) out of six and left ISU.
Majors had one winning season (overall record) out of six and left ISU.
Mac has four winning seasons (overall record) out of 11 and has chosen to stay at ISU. Also one .500 overall records and Majors/Bruce have zero.

1978 4-3 (4-4 if you count loss to future conference foe of A&M)
1977 5-2
1976 5-2
1975 1-6
1974 2-5
1973 2-5
1972 2-4-1
1971 4-3
1970 1-6
1969 1-6
1968 1-6
1967 1-6 (1-7 if you count loss to future conference foe of Texas)

Other items to note:

1959 is considered an all time great ISU team and the team finished 7-3 and 3-3 in the conference. At the time the conference only had 7 teams. So one of ISU’s all time great teams has a .500 record in conference play. Mac has four .500 conference record seasons.
1976 team is considered the best ever and that team finished 8-3 and 5-2 in the conference and lost the bowl game. Mac has one season with a 9-3 record and 5-3 in conference and they won the bowl that year.

Mac versus 16 seasons before Mac comparison:

Winning conference records: Tie.
.500 conference records: Mac up 4.
2 bowl wins for Mac compared to 0.
5 bowl appearances for Mac compared to 0.

Mac versus Bruce/Majors combination:

Winning conference records: 4 to 1 in favor of Bruce/Major’s or 3 to 1 if you count one year where ISU lost to a future South team.
.500 conference records: Mac up 4 or 3 if you count same as above. Again Bruce/Majors had 0.
2 bowl wins for Mac compared to 0.
5 bowl appearances for Mac compared to 4 for Bruce/Major
1 8 win team bowl appearance for Mac compared to 3 for Bruce/Major

Overall difference is Bruce and Majors have two more seasons with 8 win bowl seasons then Mac. This boils down to the last two years where Mac won 7 games and not 8 games or lost the last game of the season. Win those two games and same as Bruce/Majors

Mac versus ISU history:

Two conference co-champions (1911 and 1912 in MVC) for history and zero for Mac.
0 bowl wins for history and Mac has 2 wins
4 bowl appearances for history and 5 for Mac
Best season ever finished 8-3 and best Mac team record is 9-3.
One of the best teams in history finished 3-3 in conference and Mac has four teams that finished .500 in conference.

Bottom line:

· Mac has beat history in terms of bowl wins and appearances, lost to Bruce and Majors by essentially two games in terms of number of seasons with winning conference records but beat Bruce/Majors in number of bowl wins and appearances, Mac’s 9-3 team is at least equal to the best team in history (1976), and has accomplished a feat four times the dirty thirty accomplished in 1959 and considered an all time great team (.500 in conference play).
· Will Mac continue to improve and take us far beyond what ISU has accomplished in its history? Still an unknown but I think he will and I think more importantly he deserves the chance because in my mind he has at least equaled ISU’s pre-Mac history in terms of bowl accomplishments and greatest teams ever. So far he has fell short in the number of winning conference records by two games (compared with Bruce and Major) and basically has another 90 years to win 2 conference championships.

herbicide · 10-12-2006, 05:26 PM

I am not bashing Mac or anyone else when I say this, but I could give a hoot about the past. To me (and I sure hope everyone else) it is all about what the future holds.

All these comparisons of current and present coaches is stupid. They have nothing to do with the future of the program. None of this has anything to do with this season or the future.

Wesley · 10-12-2006, 05:29 PM

Is that McC Red and JP Herb out there?

Wesley · 10-12-2006, 05:32 PM

I would now hire the 1976 staff if they are available. Six years of winning in conference play in 40 years. That is 15%. MAUDE, CALL OUT THE FIRETRUCKS, WE NEED TO BEAT THE SOONERS TO GET OUR PERCENTAGE UP THIS YEAR. WE ARE DUE.

herbicide · 10-12-2006, 06:29 PM

I wish I had JP's salary!

If we use our history as a benchmark, then we should be content with a 3-3 record.

I for one am not.

C.John · 10-12-2006, 07:11 PM

redskinsisu-Thanks for the effert you put into this thread. Be warned though, there are the haters and the negativity lovers on this board who will denounce you and will tell you and everyone else to stop living in the past. Your thread raises the question: Is it the coaching or the school itself that is responsible for our traditional inadequacy in FB? Don't get me wrong, I love ISU, but is it Mac's fault or ISU's?

Bobber · 10-12-2006, 07:19 PM

Good Post.

I think everybody agrees that we need to be better, but as your stats indicate that's easier said then done.

I say you give Mac a budget twice what it is now, put 70,000 people in the stands every week and build facilities equal to the power schools in the conference, he'll get it done.

Anything less, and we shouldn'd be surprised to have less.

Wesley · 10-12-2006, 07:32 PM

Looks like 4-4 is a great year. We have gone to the next tier.

darts180 · 10-13-2006, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bobber

Good Post.

I think everybody agrees that we need to be better, but as your stats indicate that's easier said then done.

I say you give Mac a budget twice what it is now, put 70,000 people in the stands every week and build facilities equal to the power schools in the conference, he'll get it done.

Anything less, and we shouldn'd be surprised to have less.

See what I don't understand, AND I HAVE ASKED MANY TIMES, is what makes you think that more money is all of a sudden make Dan a better coach??? A 100000 seat stadium couldn't have stopped Dan from wetting himself against K State in '99, deficating on himself against Kansas last year!!!!! And those were just TWO of dozens of games that could have made a difference of MILLIONS of dollars for the ath. dept. budget

michaelrr1 · 10-14-2006, 11:39 AM

It must be noted that in the past, schools had more scholarships. So some of the players that are now available to ISU may not have been if schools like Texas, Oklahoma, or Nebraska still had those extra scholarships to hand out. Mac has had abetter pool of talent to work with than past coaches.

cpvarley · 10-14-2006, 01:12 PM

The history lesson is a good reminder of where we have come from.
As much as anyone wants to give Mc Carney props for sticking around. ISU could very easily hung him out to dry after his first five years.
It is complete B-LLSH_T to say we have to dump endless amounts of money to improve the ISU football program. That is the same mentality that has made Ford and GM leading car manufactures ... oh yeah.

If you want the alumni, fans, prospective atheletes, and the sports talking heads to give ISU a fair shake. You need to give them something to be excited about and willing to buy into. I think Pollard is helping, but I don't think we are there yet.