recruiting backslide

ketelmeister · 10-24-2006, 08:23 PM

Maybe the "Clones" are overachieving with the players we have. Look at the recruiting rank of McCarneys players on rivals.com. Pretty scary backslide
Cyclones ranking nationally in quality of recruits
2002 30th
2003 46th
2004 42nd
2005 58th
2006 63rd
2007 63rd
Does anyone see a pattern here? If we don't have the studs, it's hard to win.

ISUFan22 · 10-24-2006, 08:58 PM

It's very strange as to why recruiting has slipped so much. Perhaps the '02 slide and the '03 mess has really hurt us. Got any rankings from his earlier years?

GoShow97 · 10-24-2006, 09:09 PM

No worries. The hard core Mac supporters have been telling us for years that recruiting rankings mean nothing. (rolleyes)

isuno1fan · 10-24-2006, 09:10 PM

I made this same point in another thread. Everyone seems to think we have all this talent on the field, but I personally don't see it. I think we have bloated ideas of what type of talent we think we have.

I'm for wholesale changes, but I'll admit it's not all coaching. We just don't have the horses people seem to think we have (of course that is due to recruiting which is a major part of Mac's job).

GoShow97 · 10-24-2006, 09:16 PM

That's just it. EVERYTHING starts and ends with Mac. Period.

ketelmeister · 10-24-2006, 10:09 PM

You're right on the talent level..just look at our roster on Cyclones.com. No size, we arent getting the linemen, no running backs. It's a mess.

herbicide · 10-24-2006, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by ketelmeister

You're right on the talent level..just look at our roster on Cyclones.com. No size, we arent getting the linemen, no running backs. It's a mess.

Good point, Bowen and McKenzie are great athletes, but they are both not true linebacker size.

Remember the LB's we had last year, along with a few years back? They were more properly sized (weight-wise) So were a good chunk of our safeties.

travman23 · 10-24-2006, 11:35 PM

You can rip me if you want to for saying this but I don't buy into recruiting rankings and I've posted my explanation on this before. If we were doing such a bad job then take a look at the recent NFL picks we've had and how many of them are playing key roles on teams today:

2006 Tim Dobbins (5/151/San Diego) Seeing time as a reserve
2005 Ellis Hobbs (3/84/New England) Starter
2003 Seneca Wallace (4/110/Seattle) Will have 1st career start this weekend
2002 Mike Banks (7/223/Arizona) Played a few seasons on special teams
2001 Reggie Hayward (3/87/Denver) Starter for Jacksonville
Sage Rosenfels (4/109/Washington) Backup for Houston
James Reed (7/206/NY Jets) Starter with Chiefs
1998 Oliver Ross (5/138/Dallas) Starter for Arizona

Lets not forget Jordan Carstens who started for Carolina last year and still gets PT for one of the best defensive lines in the NFL. Jordan was an unknown non-scholarship player from a 1A Iowa HS. JJ Moses has returned kicks for a few NFL teams as well. Jeremy Lloyd was with the Rams for awhile, Tony Yelk is on the practice squad for Atlanta and several other recent grads have been in NFL training camps in recent years. Looking over that list I don't think any of those players were 4 or 5 star recruits when they came to ISU. We probably have a couple players on this current team that will get a chance with the NFL too

I think where we may fail is balancing our recruiting. We always seem to get some good players at the skill positions but we forget about things like the offensive line and kickers at times just so we can sign an extra RB or something. Alford and Ash are the 2 primary recruiting assistants on the staff. Mac doesn't go out there and find all these players, most head coaches don't. Head coaches are brought in to take a look at a kid an assistant has scouted then they go into the living room and try to get a commitment. After listening to Alford and Ash at the recruiting thing Cyclone Nation put on in the spring at 3 Bag in WDM, I have my doubts that those 2 are doing enough to address areas we need depth and help at. Whenever someone asked them a tough question about recruiting we got a weak blanket answer and they tip-toed around the question. I specifically asked about why did didn't sign a single kicker when we had a senior punter and a guy that has missed some big FG's and I got the old "vote of confidence" BS that they were ok with what we already have. Granted I hope the 52 yarder that Shaggy hit the other week is a sign of things to come, at the time though you would think that we would have at least brought in someone to push him for the job before the season knowing our recent history with kickers.

I don't know, I could just be completely off my rocker too with this but it has been really frustrating to read some of these posts lately and sort through all the garbage and negativity at this time. I'm like any other fan, I am frustrated too but I'm not getting panicked like the sky is falling like a lot of others here seem to be...

frontrangeclone · 10-25-2006, 12:07 AM

travman- thanks for sharing that info on where some former Mac recruits are in the NFL. The list has grown since the we were consistent basement dwellers in the big 8/12, and it's cool to see guys like Seneca and others play.... However, this list of 8 players is still very small when compared to the likes of colorado, k-state, nebraska, and iowa, and heck, even UNI has a decent # of players in the league. ISU will never be a pipeline to the NFL, but one would think that being a midwest school, and one that had emphasized the run in the early-2000s, we'd have more "big uglies" (O-linemen as Keith Jackson calls them) in the NFL. Look at iowa for example. Perhaps this shows what you mentioned as not recruiting in the critical areas.

JCloned · 10-25-2006, 06:06 AM

Of course our offense and defensive rankings right now are well below our recruiting class number....

Kyle · 10-25-2006, 06:55 AM

With winning comes recruits. 30th in the nation isn't a bad class, and came after we went 9-3. There has been a constant backslide since then. Also, shouldn't that 2002 class be seniors now? We most certainly are not playing like the 30th best team in the country, heck not even the 63rd.

Cyclone06 · 10-25-2006, 08:27 AM

Overall I feel it is absolutely true that we do not have the collective talent as TX, NU, OU etc. but we do have the largest amount of talent ever assembled here and more than enough play makers to atleast be competitive in all are games. Yet we're only compettitve against UNI, Toledo, & UNLV. The coaches are not correctly implementing strategy to get the best out of there resources. This in the business world, gets you forced into "early retirement".

NU Follower · 10-25-2006, 08:57 AM

I said before the season that ISU would struggle due to 2 reasons. Lack of depth across the board on ISU's roster and your schedule.

Coming into this year, your team had two difference makers on offense(Meyer and Blythe) and defense (Curvey, Jackson). Bowen has really surprised me with how well he has played.

I don't know where all the supposed talent on this is. You don't have anyone at RB, Blythe and then a bunch of average receivers, decent TEs, and a crappy OL with absolutely no depth (good luck next year).

Defense was really young and has no depth at any position. Take off the Cardinal and Gold glasses and you can see this.

ps... I'm sure glad I'm not Jamie Pollard. Maybe the honeymoon is over.

Ficklone02 · 10-25-2006, 09:26 AM

I'm curious as to what these rankings for each player mean about there talent. Do they factor in the school they are going to and what they have to offer for the development of the player? I mean, lets stop kidding ourselves......if an o-lineman either chooses EIU or ISU which place do you think he will see the most improvement. I like his chances better at EIU for not only the better facilities, but mostly the better coaching.

Does anybody know the answer to this.....I've been skeptical for a long time about recruiting rankings since the guys we get commitments from seem to lose rankings when they commit to us. However, the national class rankings don't lie.....if we were 30th on this list every year since 2002; we would in fact be competing for a the North crown.

NU Follower · 10-25-2006, 11:23 AM

Fick,

Average national recruiting rankings do give a good indication of how good of a team you will field. Solich's last 3 recruiting classes were something like 26, 32, and 41. Our AD (Steve Pederson) saw this and was a major reason for Frankie being fired, among other things.

Whether ISU fans want to hear it or not, that is a big reason why ISU beat Nebraska in 2002 and 2004. The talent on the field was very similar.

Nebraska with Callahan has ramped up the recruiting greatly and our player develop has greatly increased as well with a new Strenth and Conditioning Coach (Kennedy, from Ohio State). Good luck, but I don't see ISU beating Nebraska again for a while.