How attractive is Iowa State?

klerme · 10-25-2006, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by CyBobby

Yeah Bryce you are right again. Iowa State has been known as a coaches graveyard for so long that its mission impossible to hire a good established coach.

When you go over 20 years without a bowl game coaches notice this and dont want to sacrifice a career for a shot at a D-1 job at ISU, they will just wait until a better job comes along.

No recruiting base, small stadium, small athletic budget and the biggie is lack of tradition. When prospective coaches see these things they run the other way.

I told Jamie Pollard yesterday that be careful what you do because you may end up with a Jim Finer Criner or a Jim Retiree Walden. And then see where attendance goes. From my experience attendance tanks!

Instead of spewing statemens like small stadium or others that have cited to low attendance, I think a reality check is in order. Right now, ISU ranks (and has ranked for the past several years) in the top 50 in average attendance (currently 42nd) which places us in the top 35% of all D-I schools. Looking solely at BCS schools, our average attendance is above all of the following:
Maryland, Colorado, K-State, Miami (FL), Kansas, Boston College, Okie State, Louisville, Miss. St., Illinois, Pitt, Stanford, Oregon State, Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, Baylor, Washington State, Wake Forest, Indiana, Northwestern, Marshall, and Duke.

If we could average the 55k that we did for UNI and Nebraska, which I believe is JP's vision (55-60K) we would rank 34th in the country. That is anything but "unattractive". Also, if you look at the list of schools above, all of them except Miss. St., Kansas, Rutgers (which may change this year), UConn, Baylor, Wake Forest, Indiana and Duke have had 10 win seasons in the past 12 years or have won their conference.

If you don't think it can be done at ISU at all, with or without Mac, please explain to me the successes of:

Virginia Tech, Washington State, Oregon State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Pitt, Georgia Tech, Purdue, Northwestern, and Michigan State (under Perles and Saban) - All BCS Schools that are not considered as the top dog in their state, but got it done by going to a major bowl.

It can be done and should have been done last year. I honestly don't think that any "fire Mac" threads would be going had we won 2 of the 4 regular season losses, played Texas for the B12 Championship and went to a January Bowl. But we didn't, and the criticism he is receiving is deserving because I agree that good gameday coaching would have allowed ISU to get to that level.

mustangcy · 10-25-2006, 11:43 AM

Anybody that thinks a very good Coordinator or assistant would not want to come here is crazy. If, and it's a big If, we get rid of Mac I'm positive Pollard would land a very good coach.

Bottom line is that there is a butt load of coordinators and assitants chomping at the bit to be a head coach in a BCS conference.

JokersWild · 10-25-2006, 11:47 AM

Agreed. I don't think there are football "graveyards" anymore. College football/athletics have changed to much over the past 20 years.

frontrangeclone · 10-25-2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by mt85

It is exactly this type of mentality that will never get us beyond where we are. If you don't think ISU can be a winner what is the payoff for being a fan? Without hope why not find another source of entertainment? I for one believe ISU can acheive every bit of what our neighbor to the east has accomplished.

Building a Nebraska or Iowa has to start somewhere. If you tell yourself it can't be done then you will never get it done.

my sentiments exactly, mt85.

Part of the discussion stems down to the fundamental "woe is us" attitude that drives me nuts.... "it's too cold in Ames to recruit speed", "Ames is a boring place," "we have no tradition, hence we can't win 8+ games a year," As pointed out in many great posts on this thread, there are dozens of models of success at other programs that had no clearer advantage than ISU has. There is now a base that Dan has established. Regarding coming to ISU and Ames, being a college coach is kinda like being a professor. Jobs are rare and highly competitive to get. There is a lot of young, eager talent in the D-IAA and D-I assistant ranks. If Dan were a professor, he would have been evaluated for "tenure" years ago, (well perhaps a cushion in the late 90s), and based on his achievements, I'm not sure he would be granted it. if a prof doesn't perform and publish, etc... yoink! they're outta there. I've seen it happen at ISU and other institutions.

CTAClone · 10-25-2006, 12:34 PM

A coach isn't going to look at ISU as a coaches graveyard. Give a coach an opportunity from I-AA school or small D-I school to coach at a BCS school they'll take it, or should at least take it. A coaches mentality is they can do better than the other coach. That's why coaches keeping wanting to work with T.O. If a coach doesn't think he can improve a school that is dedicated to improving the program and facilities, I don't want to hire that type of coach.

cycloneworld · 10-25-2006, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by BryceC

Don't look now, but Baylor is 4-4 and actually has wins in the big 12, and beat us AT HOME last year. They have a quality coach and that program is on the rise.

Come on Bryce, just because Baylor beat us last year doesn't mean they have a better program.

They are 4-4 with wins against a Div. 1AA team and the bottom north teams (CU, KU, and KSU). There is no way they make a bowl game this year with their remaining schedule. How exactly are they on the rise?

2002 - 3-9 (1-7)
2003 - 3-9 (1-7)
2004 - 3-8 (1-7)
2005 - 5-6 (2-6)
2006 - 4-4 and will probably finish 4-8.

Their "breakout year was a 5-6 finish with 2 conference wins...

ISUFan22 · 10-25-2006, 02:10 PM

It will be very interesting to see how we do vs. KSU, KU and CU compared to how Baylor did. I'll just leave it at that for now.

cycloneworld · 10-25-2006, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

It will be very interesting to see how we do vs. KSU, KU and CU compared to how Baylor did. I'll just leave it at that for now.

No matter what happens, you can't tell me that Baylor is a better program...all because of this year.

Baylor may very well be better than us this year but that's not the discussion, it's about the programs.

rkheil · 10-25-2006, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneworld

No matter what happens, you can't tell me that Baylor is a better program...all because of this year.

Baylor may very well be better than us this year but that's not the discussion, it's about the programs.

And where would you rate our program right now? It's headed in the wrong direction and recruiting is looking worse. I am not happy even debating whether Baylor and Kansas are better programs than ours. Shows you how far we have already dropped.

ISUFan22 · 10-25-2006, 02:34 PM

I didn't say I felt Baylor is better. I just think it will be a very interesting comparision with Baylor playing the 3 worst North teams outside of ISU and us playing these three as well.