The Jim Criner Myth

cyclonedrew · 10-25-2006, 11:05 AM

Criner was not that bad of a coach. Look at his World league teams after ISU. He won championships. Criner had less than anyone in support money and our stadium was absolutely crap and the locker rooms were crap when he was coaching. His coaching ability was actually not that bad. If you took some of his records when he was coaching he would have made a few bowl games. So when everyone throws Jim Criner under a bus. Remember what he had to work with. I am not saying he was Jimmmy Johnson or Steve Spurrier but he was not bad either. Just a bad situation.

nj829 · 10-25-2006, 11:17 AM

Didn't he have recruiting violations and we lost scholorships because of it? I remember Walnuts discussing that back in the day I think.

cyclonedrew · 10-25-2006, 11:21 AM

Yeah Criner ended up cheating to win. That was not the point I was trying to make though. He did not do that much though.

ISUFan22 · 10-25-2006, 11:32 AM

You may not have tried to make that point, but you did.

Criner cheated. End of story.

Wesley · 10-25-2006, 11:42 AM

We may approach that level if we go back to the nineties in wins or 2003.

Looksd like that is the normal operandi in Oklahoma: previous call making an extra 800 calls and Brett Bomarrs paid to sell cars when he was not on the lot.

Then the previous coach at Colorado having and allowing sex parties to recruit. The ski slopes were not enough.

And the Mangino No Student Left behind approach.

And the KSU "You can start Now Josh Freeman" Ron "Freddy" Prince who was stolen from Nebraska.

Yep, clean gets you three wins. The next level you get tarnished a little.

iccyfan · 10-25-2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by cyclonedrew

Yeah Criner ended up cheating to win. That was not the point I was trying to make though. He did not do that much though.

Here's the story I heard. My source is an insurance agent who grew up across the street from our previous AD and they have remained close friends. The story is third-hand and therefore suspect, but here goes:

When the NCAA sat down with ISU to discuss transgressions within the football program under Criner (going back to Duncan), they had more material than they used to give SMU the death penalty. ISU would have been a distinct candidate for the football "death penalty", but the NCAA saw what it had done to SMU's entire athletic program and didn't want to implement it ever again.

Take it for what it's worth, but when I was at ISU I saw the vehicles that Alex Espinoza and Dwayne Crutchfield tooled around in. I'm not doubting that other schools were equally dirty, but Duncan and Criner both ran dirty programs!

CloneFan65 · 10-25-2006, 01:38 PM

Criner also cost us Glenn Rice. Rice had verbally committed to ISU basketball, but when he heard the athletic department was being investigated by the NCAA he got cold feet. He committed to Michigan after Frieder warned Rice that ISU basketball was also being investigated. (A little misleading since they were only investigating the basketball team because of the football team.) Can you immagine if we had had Rice on that Sweet 16 team?

ISU95 · 10-25-2006, 03:15 PM

Here is a link to the NCAA Infractions Database. The ISU violations are no where near as bad as SMU.
https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi..._Cmd=Go_Search

CyBobby · 10-25-2006, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by cyclonedrew

Yeah Criner ended up cheating to win. That was not the point I was trying to make though. He did not do that much though.

The Locust Street Liar ran an article about Jim Finer Criner that said he cheated and still couldnt win.

Criners records were 4-7, 2-7-2, 5-6, and 6-5. Criner was a disaster against the hawks Losses like 51-10, 59-21, 57-3, 43-7! With scores like that attendance went from 50,000 under Duncan to around 39,000 in Criners last year.

Last I heard old Jimmy Criner was selling fishing tackle in Idaho.

Sorry but I don't want another Criner.

Cyclonepride · 10-25-2006, 03:45 PM

I'm not sure how many scholarships ISU lost after all that, but to hear Walden talk on KXNO, it sounds like a whole bunch.

iccyfan · 10-25-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by ISU95

Here is a link to the NCAA Infractions Database. The ISU violations are no where near as bad as SMU.
https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi..._Cmd=Go_Search

Interesting read; thanks for digging it up. I read thru the ISU violation summary but didn't pull up SMU's; I prefaced my story that it came from an insurance agent - everybody knows you can't expect them to tell the truth!

From the summary, you can see that the NCAA took it easy (if you can call it that) on ISU primarily because we "terminated the head coach" and took some other remedial actions (removed ourselves from bowl contention).

herbicide · 10-25-2006, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclonepride

I'm not sure how many scholarships ISU lost after all that, but to hear Walden talk on KXNO, it sounds like a whole bunch.

Take everything that Walden says or implies with a grain of salt. He has his qualities, but he is an excuse maker, in a bad way (Not coachspeak that Mac uses)

He blamed the band and the fans at times during his stint here.

Criner did bend us over though, and it suprised many that Walden even came here in the first place because of it.

Nedrick · 10-25-2006, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by CloneFan65

Criner also cost us Glenn Rice. Rice had verbally committed to ISU basketball, but when he heard the athletic department was being investigated by the NCAA he got cold feet. He committed to Michigan after Frieder warned Rice that ISU basketball was also being investigated. (A little misleading since they were only investigating the basketball team because of the football team.) Can you immagine if we had had Rice on that Sweet 16 team?

I had no idea Rice had verballed to ISU. Learn something new every day!

ketelmeister · 10-25-2006, 06:50 PM

Jim Criner was a TERRIBLE coach. I was in school at the time. Only Donnie Duncan was worse. Recruiting is as important as coaching, and his recruits would have been better off at UPPER IOWA COLLEGE not ISU. Pull your head out of la la land. Iowa State was not "finer with Jim Criner" as the slogan went.

CF_Cyclone · 10-26-2006, 05:30 PM

Jim Criner had the great idea to reward the outstanding players with different color helmets (red helmets in place of yellow). Fine idea, nothing like making it easier to tell which players are your top players.