Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigDISU1 
Who do you think is the best Cyclone football coach?
The reason he is for me is because he's all I've ever known for Cyclone Football. I bled black and gold for the time Walden and Bruce were coaches here. All I knew about Cyclone football in the '80s and 90's was it was a guaranteed win for the Hawkeyes. Then I came to ISU and left the Sqwaks behind, not knowing if I was ever gonna cheer for winning football ever again. Then Mac turned the program and beat my new favorite team to hate (Iowa) and got us winning.
I'm not sure if Walden or Bruce turned the program from as far from the depths as McCarney did, but Mac turned us from being one of the worst football programs in America (that couldn't even beat UNI) and one that was on sanctions to a program that was able to win. Ok, it's been a mediocre program, but that's a lot better than I envisioned when I came to ISU in '97.
Is Mac the best football coach ever at ISU? Maybe. Likely not. However, unless our next coach takes us to the next level with the love that Mac did it, Mac will remain my favorite coach.
Good luck, Mac, wherever life takes you. I'll always be a fan of yours.:yes4lo:
Re: Much of it is about the President.
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Originally Posted by
BenEClone I could be wrong, but, I suspect the AD has the complete support of Pres. Geoffroy. I like the public goal setting. Everything he does can be measured by whether it moves us closer to the goals. Pollard evidently made a decision that we would be better in x years with a change. Yes, he will be held accountable for that decision. The support of the president is essential so that he isn't fearful of making a mistake.
It hasn't gotten any attention, but, the big difference between now and any other pertinent time is that the president seems to be supportive of building the athletic department. My sense is that we had two football coaches in the 70's who could build the program, but left because they didn't receive support for what they needed from the administration.
Well, Geoffroy DID come from the University of Maryland, and we all know about the success they've had there (many mens and womens final fours w/ a championship each and a BCS game for the Terps football program).
I think Geoffry understands what it takes from a president to have a winning athletic program, and he likes what Pollard is doing. Must be why he brought him in in the first place...:yes4lo:
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
Outstanding points, cycloneworld. Also, Mac's team achieved a #8 national ranking at one point and was in the top 25 for quite a while. I don't know whether any other ISU coach accomplished that, but it definitely ranks him near the top.
I'm afraid most fans are going to be pining for the Mac years in the near future.
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
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Originally Posted by
cygoat Outstanding points, cycloneworld. Also, Mac's team achieved a #8 national ranking at one point and was in the top 25 for quite a while. I don't know whether any other ISU coach accomplished that, but it definitely ranks him near the top.
I'm afraid most fans are going to be pining for the Mac years in the near future.
let's hope not - let's hope mac's tenure was just the foundation, and we'll be able to remember who started it all:yes4lo:
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
i am sick of people saying negative things about pollard. Who can tell me that changes did not need to be made in the basketball program and when you you have a shot at bringing in a guy like sanderson into your wrestling program you have to take it. If you want to move forward and get to the next level. let the man do his job. I am very excited about the future of isu athletics. jp has done more positive things for the atheltic programs at isu in the last year than any other ad in the history of isu.
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
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Originally Posted by
cycloneworld He may not have the best stats or have a great looking record to the outside world but to say he wasn't our best coach ever is foolish IMO.
In recent history, I vote for Earle Bruce. Overall, you might throw in Clyde Williams.
Call me foolish if you like, but it's just hard for me to believe that the best coach ever in ISU history would be below the school average in both conference winning % and overall winning %. You do realize that Iowa State hasn't exactly been a football power over the years. Aren't coaches supposed to win games? The other things, like representing the university well should be expected from a head coach.
The only impressive thing on your list is the lone 9-3 season. The issue of the medicore bowls has been discussed to death. Exactly what did DM have to do with Troy Davis? Did DM recruit TD? Many of the past coaches represented ISU well and didn't get in trouble with the NCAA. And it's not like DM's players have been squeaky clean.
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jdoggivjc The reason he is for me is because he's all I've ever known for Cyclone Football. I bled black and gold for the time Walden and Bruce were coaches here. All I knew about Cyclone football in the '80s and 90's was it was a guaranteed win for the Hawkeyes. Then I came to ISU and left the Sqwaks behind, not knowing if I was ever gonna cheer for winning football ever again. Then Mac turned the program and beat my new favorite team to hate (Iowa) and got us winning.
I'm not sure if Walden or Bruce turned the program from as far from the depths as McCarney did, but Mac turned us from being one of the worst football programs in America (that couldn't even beat UNI) and one that was on sanctions to a program that was able to win. Ok, it's been a mediocre program, but that's a lot better than I envisioned when I came to ISU in '97.
If you are going to discuss the situation, please get some of your history correct. First of all, Earl Bruce had taken over a good foundation from Johnny Majors and continued to lay a solid foundation throughout the 70's. Both Johnny and Earl went to bowl games when bowl games truly meant you were a very good team (unlike today when over 1/2 of the D1 schools get into bowl games). One of Bruce's teams failed to make a bowl despite an 8-3 record. At the time, the Big 8 was tough throughout (except KU and KSU with OSU being up and down). NU, OU, CU, and yes, Missouri, all spent time in the top 25. Bruce actually won at Nebraska.
Between Bruce and Walden were Donnie Duncan and Jim Criner. Duncan took over the foundation from Bruce and started to let it crack although, he did beat Iowa and he did get the school ranked as high as #10 (or 12) before they did the same thing as the 02 team and faltered the rest of the season ending with a .500 record. Then Criner came in, got his a** handed to him by Hayden Fry, and the foundation broke and crumbled. In desperation, he violated rules and ISU ended up on probation. In Walden's first years, he coached the hell out of teams with little to no talent and recruited good talent. He then won at OU and finished 6-5. The following year was to be a breakout year with many returning starters on offense, namely Blaise Bryant, Chris Pederson, Gene Williams, Keith Sims and Mike Busch. Unfortunately Blaise got injured as did Pederson and the squad finished 4-7. Walden then had internal battles and lack of support from the AD and that was the end of any foundation as he decided to go to the option offense (which he hadn't run before) and decided to give the ball to the FB (a 5-9, 205 juco from Ft. Dodge) 20 times per game and the rest is history. Despite that, don't forget that Walden still beat NU and KSU when they were ranked.
DMac was the right person for the job at the time and Gene Smith was a great AD at hiring coaches (DMac, Fennelly, Floyd, Douglas - all in a 2 year span - and then Eustachy). ISU was not on sanctions at the time, but the program was in decline. DMac understood the macro approach of building a foundation through relationships with coaches throughout the state of Iowa, beating Iowa both on the field and with recruits rather than conceding, running camps and bringing in solid talent to those camps, building relationships with fans and donors, running a clean program, and most importantly for the foundation of success, having an Athletic Department support him in building better facilities. Unfortunately, he wasn't great at the micro part of the coaching, i.e. the games and attention to details needed to get ISU to a championship like a Frank Beamer at VT. I am thankful for DMac's efforts and rebuilt foundation and truly believe he will be successful. Quite frankly, I think he'd do well at Stanford where they could pay more money for better quality assistants that could help him overcome his gameday deficiencies. But to qualify him as the best coach ever at ISU is not fair to the prior coaches before him, especially when you see the success Bruce had at OSU and Majors had at Tennessee.
DMac is what he is, a great guy and a good coach who was the right person at the time and now the torch is being passed and I am thankful that JP is the person making the hire and not BVDV.
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
John Majors and Earle Bruce were both excellent coaches who had good teams and represented the school well. While we can't fault Mac for going to bowls in today's mediocre=Bowl bid culture, we cannot hold it aginst those guys for not going. Mac hasn't cornered the market on being a nice guy, there are alot of them out there.
I am in no way, trying to diminish what Dan did here. To call him our best ever is foolish IMO. Clay Stapleton gave every bit as much of himself as Dan did here. That is what good coaches do. Sometimes, time erodes our memory and many of us are not aware of those previously named individuals because we were not Cyclones then. Dan is the beneficiary of incompetence (Walden, Criner and Duncan)coaching here before him!
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
klerme If you are going to discuss the situation, please get some of your history correct. First of all, Earl Bruce had taken over a good foundation from Johnny Majors and continued to lay a solid foundation throughout the 70's. Both Johnny and Earl went to bowl games when bowl games truly meant you were a very good team (unlike today when over 1/2 of the D1 schools get into bowl games). One of Bruce's teams failed to make a bowl despite an 8-3 record. At the time, the Big 8 was tough throughout (except KU and KSU with OSU being up and down). NU, OU, CU, and yes, Missouri, all spent time in the top 25. Bruce actually won at Nebraska.
Between Bruce and Walden were Donnie Duncan and Jim Criner. Duncan took over the foundation from Bruce and started to let it crack although, he did beat Iowa and he did get the school ranked as high as #10 (or 12) before they did the same thing as the 02 team and faltered the rest of the season ending with a .500 record. Then Criner came in, got his a** handed to him by Hayden Fry, and the foundation broke and crumbled. In desperation, he violated rules and ISU ended up on probation. In Walden's first years, he coached the hell out of teams with little to no talent and recruited good talent. He then won at OU and finished 6-5. The following year was to be a breakout year with many returning starters on offense, namely Blaise Bryant, Chris Pederson, Gene Williams, Keith Sims and Mike Busch. Unfortunately Blaise got injured as did Pederson and the squad finished 4-7. Walden then had internal battles and lack of support from the AD and that was the end of any foundation as he decided to go to the option offense (which he hadn't run before) and decided to give the ball to the FB (a 5-9, 205 juco from Ft. Dodge) 20 times per game and the rest is history. Despite that, don't forget that Walden still beat NU and KSU when they were ranked.
DMac was the right person for the job at the time and Gene Smith was a great AD at hiring coaches (DMac, Fennelly, Floyd, Douglas - all in a 2 year span - and then Eustachy). ISU was not on sanctions at the time, but the program was in decline. DMac understood the macro approach of building a foundation through relationships with coaches throughout the state of Iowa, beating Iowa both on the field and with recruits rather than conceding, running camps and bringing in solid talent to those camps, building relationships with fans and donors, running a clean program, and most importantly for the foundation of success, having an Athletic Department support him in building better facilities. Unfortunately, he wasn't great at the micro part of the coaching, i.e. the games and attention to details needed to get ISU to a championship like a Frank Beamer at VT. I am thankful for DMac's efforts and rebuilt foundation and truly believe he will be successful. Quite frankly, I think he'd do well at Stanford where they could pay more money for better quality assistants that could help him overcome his gameday deficiencies. But to qualify him as the best coach ever at ISU is not fair to the prior coaches before him, especially when you see the success Bruce had at OSU and Majors had at Tennessee.
DMac is what he is, a great guy and a good coach who was the right person at the time and now the torch is being passed and I am thankful that JP is the person making the hire and not BVDV.
and like i said, i was not an iowa state fan at the time. all i know about cyclone football before '97 is all the hearsay i've heard over the last 10 years. i didn't even know isu violated ncaa policies until 2 weeks ago.
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
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Originally Posted by
TheHelgo I agree with most of what you say, but I also need to say that I think it is becoming pretty apparant that Pollard is a little trigger happy. In his first 14 months he has cleaned out all major sports coaches except Fennely (wonder how long he'll be here if the women disappoint). Most of what Pollard has done I agree with and support, but I hope this doesn't become a trend where he is constantly firing coaches and 'restarting'. I really hope they spend some time finding the new coach, and bring in someone that people can get excited about.
would you say that we are worse off with mcd and cael? Both seem to be decisions that are gonna pay off big time. Trigger happy, i think not.
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
klerme ... I am thankful that JP is the person making the hire and not BVDV.
That is far and away, the biggest key to this whole situation.
If BVV was still at the helm, I'd be scrambling to get in the men's basketball mix.
Oh wait, no I wouldn't because we'd still have Wayne Morgan and not Greg McDermott.
I guess I'd have a few thousand dollars extra to play with next year....
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheHelgo I agree with most of what you say, but I also need to say that I think it is becoming pretty apparant that Pollard is a little trigger happy. In his first 14 months he has cleaned out all major sports coaches except Fennely (wonder how long he'll be here if the women disappoint). Most of what Pollard has done I agree with and support, but I hope this doesn't become a trend where he is constantly firing coaches and 'restarting'. I really hope they spend some time finding the new coach, and bring in someone that people can get excited about.
I think that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of!
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
This is the only change that in my book was a tough decision.
There was great unrest under Morgan. I think we all know full well that many boosters surrounding the ISU Basketball program were most unhappy and the direction wasn't looking too good.
Cael was a move to simply not lose Cael. It really wasn't a reflection on Bobby Douglas, but rather a historical consequence of Dan Gable.
The Mac situation was the most tenuous. He had supporters and detractors. But that was limited to his job performance on the field. Each side has legitimate points that the other side could legitimately offset. Off the field, he is class and passion. Nobody can deny that.
I am one who thinks this is the right thing to do for ISU football and in turn, ISU athletics. I have trust that JP will find a good coach and the program will move forward and ahead of where Coach Mac took it previously.
All the same, I'm just sick that this HAD to happen.
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
I am finding this amusing that we are all waxing rhapsoic about the 12 years that Dan was here. I suppose that it is only natural that people only remember the good times, and forget all of the bad. It's like breaking up with someone you have dated a long time, initially your memory is pretty selective.
Hopefully this group will pull it together, and at least try the last two games, Dan does deserve that. However, if we lose out, the HC record for 12 years will be 30 games under .500, how could that ever be acceptable. The fact of the matter is that he didn't win enough, only 47 wins over Division 1 teams. His teams were poor fundementally, and he stated that he left fundementals up to the high school coaches. What kind a statement is that for a Division 1 coach to make??? An unacceptable one that's what it is.
But while I agree there is a certain amount of sadness that is associated with Dan leaving due to the commitment that he made, and was made to him by the university, let's not forget the product that we have seen on the field this season. We are realistically 3-4 plays from being winless, and after 12 years, that cannot happen.
A lot has been made of the last time that we went winless in the conference, we came back with a strong season in 2004. But how bad was the Big 12 North that year, let alone last year, and we got to play the bad half of the South. It seems that Dan has been the beneficiary of the decline of every program in the North, whereas Earle, and Johnny built the program up to a level to be competitive, the league came back to Dan, and he still couldn't win the division.
Even at risk of "having my teeth punched down my throat," as one of the posters on this site so bravely threatened, I will be at JTS next Saturday, and even though the game may not be good, hopefully there will be a celebratory mood in the stadium for the end of an era.
Re: If I hear on the radio, one more time
I really like Coach Mac. I had the the opportunity to get to meet him in a social setting on two occasions and he was a great guy. Having said that I was amazed at his longevity given the season by season breakdown of his record the DSM Register printed this morning. Imagine you did not know coach Mac and were reading this record for another BCS coach. You would be surprised he lasted five years let alone twelve. I think the biggest tribute to Coach Mac is how many people are genuinely sad at his leaving as compared with the teams performance.
