Coach Mac

**cloneatlaw** · 12-28-2006, 08:30 PM

Alaska --
You're right. Iowa State was good in the 70's. But remember the late 80's / early 90's? We were pathetic, and the losing streak to Iowa was pretty embarassing. People who think that MAC did so little have unreasonably high expectations. I don't think that anybody is arguing that the guy should win coach of the century, but people should at least admit that he took us from consistently bad to consistently mediocre, which is a sign of at least a bit of coaching ability.

**Steve** · 12-28-2006, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by cloneatlaw

Alaska --
You're right. Iowa State was good in the 70's. But remember the late 80's / early 90's? We were pathetic, and the losing streak to Iowa was pretty embarassing. People who think that MAC did so little have unreasonably high expectations. I don't think that anybody is arguing that the guy should win coach of the century, but people should at least admit that he took us from consistently bad to consistently mediocre, which is a sign of at least a bit of coaching ability.

If Mac could have coached as well as he tried to convince the public that he did, he'd still have his job. The facts are that ISU won 25 games in the last half of the 80's, 14 in the first half of the 90's, & 13 in the last half of the 90's (Mac's 1st 5 yrs). After a couple of respectable seasons riding the talent of Sage & Seneca, the program went downhill. The downslide actually started during the 2nd half of Seneca's last season. There were still some highlights, but every bit as many outcomes that mandated a change.

Ed · 12-28-2006, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by alaskaguy

Ed,

You are absolutely wrong. When I went to school in the 70's ISU beat Nebraska two years in a row. Both years Nebraska was ranked in the top five. People that think that MAC did so much have very low expectations.

So what? I did not say ISU NEVER beat a top 20 team. The fact is in the history of ISU FB ver FEW times have we beat a top twenty team. Sure we beat a couple in the 70s. We had a couple of good coaches in Majors and Bruce, they left and ISU football became the worst in the NCAA. Mac was hired and got us out of that hole. If you cannot see that you don't know anything about football. Mac took ISU FB at least to the same level as Majors and Bruce, but was not able to keep the mometum going. We slide back this year and a change was made. That doesn't mean Mac was a bad coach, he just was good enough to get ISU to a level we have NEVER been able to reach. Hopefully GC will, but if he does he will be the FIRST coach in ISU history to get us to that level.
Meanwhile Mac is a talented coach and will end up with a good job somewhere - and deservedly so.

**cloneatlaw** · 12-28-2006, 09:30 PM

For the most part, I agree with you, Steve. I'm definitely not trying to rehash the fire / don't fire Mac debate. What's done is done, and, looking back, it was the best decision. I'm only trying to put to rest the argument that Mac has absolutely no coaching ability. While here, he rode the talents of Sage & Seneca, two players that he recruited, along with pretty solid defenses. We won 39 games between '00 and '05. Unless people are trying to argue that he just got lucky, he must have some ability. Mac has had a pretty solid coaching career, and our program is better off because of his tenure here. He'll find a job somewhere else.

**alaskaguy** · 12-28-2006, 09:56 PM

I believe we would all agree that Mac has not had a terrible coaching career. However, it is my opinion that based on his record at ISU he had a mediocre career at best.

He did elevate the program from among the worst football programs in the nation. However, I'm not certain that our program is much better because of his tenure here. If you look at our current position, the ISU football program has to be in the worst position of any Big 12 football program.

**ketelmeister** · 12-28-2006, 10:06 PM

I believe Mac's program did go downhill and the ship was sinking fast. Look at the facts.
-losing record to all big 12 teams over the past four years
-bottom of big 12 recruiting the last three years
-last place in big 12 this season
-terrible record in close and OT games
-could easily have gone winless this season
If you look at the posters, press guide etc. Mac had his picture plastered all over the cover. He was first out of the tunnel, which I found strange and he had become a big self promoter.
His wife rode the bus to the stadium at away games, whick I didn't think much of. (She got out crying at the CU game, a great way to fire up the team) and Mac didn't seem to recognize good coaching talent.
He had some very good asst. coaches along the way, but apparently that was by accident or he would have recognized how weak Barney C was.
And to top it off, apparently, no one wants him.
I'm sure he was a great guy and he did improve the program, but his best days at ISU were over. I hope he lands a good job, but I'm also glad for a new start.

**C.John** · 12-28-2006, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by ketelmeister

His wife rode the bus to the stadium at away games, whick I didn't think much of. (She got out crying at the CU game, a great way to fire up the team)

As stated in the past, let's leave Mac's wife out of it. She made no game day decisions nor any personal decisions. Fire away at Mac, but leave his family out of it.

**ketelmeister** · 12-28-2006, 10:21 PM

CJohn, my point was not to take a shot at Mac's wife. From what I've heard she is very well like by all, had players over for dinner etc. The decision on her riding the bus was made by the head coach and that is what I was questioning. I was there when the players got off at the CU game, and the ensuing scene was a downer for everyone, players included. As a Coach, that is a decision that he made and I felt it is the wrong one.

**C.John** · 12-28-2006, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by ketelmeister

CJohn, my point was not to take a shot at Mac's wife. From what I've heard she is very well like by all, had players over for dinner etc. The decision on her riding the bus was made by the head coach and that is what I was questioning. I was there when the players got off at the CU game, and the ensuing scene was a downer for everyone, players included. As a Coach, that is a decision that he made and I felt it is the wrong one.

I do understand exactly where you are going. I mainly wanted to stop any disparaging comments about his wife before they got started.

**ketelmeister** · 12-28-2006, 10:41 PM

CJohn, I agree with you on that.

**darts180** · 12-29-2006, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ed

So what? I did not say ISU NEVER beat a top 20 team. The fact is in the history of ISU FB ver FEW times have we beat a top twenty team. Sure we beat a couple in the 70s. We had a couple of good coaches in Majors and Bruce, they left and ISU football became the worst in the NCAA. Mac was hired and got us out of that hole. If you cannot see that you don't know anything about football. Mac took ISU FB at least to the same level as Majors and Bruce, but was not able to keep the mometum going. We slide back this year and a change was made. That doesn't mean Mac was a bad coach, he just was good enough to get ISU to a level we have NEVER been able to reach. Hopefully GC will, but if he does he will be the FIRST coach in ISU history to get us to that level.
Meanwhile Mac is a talented coach and will end up with a good job somewhere - and deservedly so.

If you are saying that Mac took the program to the level that Earle Bruce had it before he left for tosu, then that tells me to not even try to argue with you because it wouldn't be fair.

**darts180** · 12-29-2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by cloneatlaw

Alaska --
You're right. Iowa State was good in the 70's. But remember the late 80's / early 90's? We were pathetic, and the losing streak to Iowa was pretty embarassing. People who think that MAC did so little have unreasonably high expectations. I don't think that anybody is arguing that the guy should win coach of the century, but people should at least admit that he took us from consistently bad to consistently mediocre, which is a sign of at least a bit of coaching ability.

What expectations did he have here??? He had a free ride until we finally hired an AD.

I will state again, the university spent more money in the last 12 years than it had in the history of the program. So improvement was bound to happen. However, how many come from behind losses did Dan McCarney have, more than 20. He had loyalty to bad assistants. He only fired Fine to save his own ***. 2-50 against top 25 teams, I'm sorry by accident he should have won 5-6 games.

And lastly, look where the program is TODAY. Last place recruiting classes, AFTER he turned the program around are you kidding???

He never got another sniff from a bigtime program, so began the spin. That kept his job 4 years longer than he should have had it.

**Bobber** · 12-29-2006, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by darts180

What expectations did he have here??? He had a free ride until we finally hired an AD.

I will state again, the university spent more money in the last 12 years than it had in the history of the program. So improvement was bound to happen. However, how many come from behind losses did Dan McCarney have, more than 20. He had loyalty to bad assistants. He only fired Fine to save his own ***. 2-50 against top 25 teams, I'm sorry by accident he should have won 5-6 games.

And lastly, look where the program is TODAY. Last place recruiting classes, AFTER he turned the program around are you kidding???

He never got another sniff from a bigtime program, so began the spin. That kept his job 4 years longer than he should have had it.

Well Jeff you're consistent. You're all beating a dead horse. Let it go....

**darts180** · 12-29-2006, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Bobber

Well Jeff you're consistent. You're all beating a dead horse. Let it go....

It isn't even about Mac, it is about the fact that in my opinion, Earle Bruce's teams his last three years would have kicked any of Mac's "bowl" teams behinds. We had three consecutive top 20 finishes, and the program was continuing to develop under Earle.

At the same time, there was another opinion that Mac's tenure was the best ever at Iowa State, that he took us to a level that we had never been to before.

I was more than happy to debate Ed, but then I was told that I didn't know anything about football. So, while I admit that I was wrong to dredge up the past, I wanted to revisit some relevant pieces of information to show just what Dan's tenure was.

**Bobber** · 12-29-2006, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by darts180

It isn't even about Mac, it is about the fact that in my opinion, Earle Bruce's teams his last three years would have kicked any of Mac's "bowl" teams behinds. We had three consecutive top 20 finishes, and the program was continuing to develop under Earle.

At the same time, there was another opinion that Mac's tenure was the best ever at Iowa State, that he took us to a level that we had never been to before.

I was more than happy to debate Ed, but then I was told that I didn't know anything about football. So, while I admit that I was wrong to dredge up the past, I wanted to revisit some relevant pieces of information to show just what Dan's tenure was.

Well you do know a thing or two about football and anybody who would argue otherwise is a fool....

Earl Bruce vs. Coach Mac. That would be an interesting matchup. I can't say I know enough about the Bruce teams to venture a good guess as to who would win.