Losing to Mizzu was simple...

[DaddyMac]

Oh good gravy folks.

Recruiting takes time boys and girls. Mac got this job when? April? And he's supposed take us to the pinnicle in 8 months? We have ZERO inside presence, not a lick. We're playing against Big 12 centers with (maybe) Big 12 forwards. Wesley Johnson is a hell of an athlete and promising player, but he's playing out of position at the 4 spot. We don't have a legit PG and no consistent threat from outside.

You have bunch of fresh faces trying to get meshed with a couple of older ones - who are going from a wide open, run and gun, "defense? What's defense?" system, to a ball control, hard nosed, disciplined style. Do any of you think GMac would've recruited Hubalek, Clark, Grey or Marsen (Ross maybe)? That's not a knock on them, but Clark in particular is just lost in this system. Compound all this with the fact he had to recruit with the possibility of Blaylock returning, Taggart and a few others taking their time in leaving. So he had 3 or 4 months - TOPS, to get these kids signed, sealed and on campus. How he managed to get any of them to summer leagues in DSM is amazing.

The ONLY thing I'm really disappointed in is the turnovers. That kills me no matter what or when. And such stupid ones. When Tinsley bounced passes off Rancik or Shirley with amazing passes, you could live with it . I don't know what Jiri was doing first 3 minutes last night - apparently he thinks we wear black. And I'm more than tired of thes off the feet, over the shoulder, loft over the defender passes. A few fundamentals please. And we know who the culprit is there. But if you pull Taylor, who do you have?

But aside from that, shooting woes? Defensive mistakes? Gonna happen with a young, limited team. We have 4 guys on the court effectively playing out of position? Maybe 3. Rashon lacks the ability to create his own shot and Cory is offenseive incapable. Wesley is right in regards to rebounding. It's often case of hustle and heart. And honestly I've been astounded (and pleased) that we've done so well this long. But at some point, and sometimes. 260 beats 230. 6'10" beats 6' 6".

Everybody needs to relax. If you honestly thought we'd finish top half, send me some of what you're smoking and/or drinking - I'm always up for a party. McD had half a recuiting class and a quarter of a recruiting season to sell him at Iowa State. Making any judgements at this point on his abilities is just foolish

[BryceC]

I think some of the guys scolding people need to remember what McD said when he took the job over. He said we'd play tough defense and play with discipline. I can handle losing, that isn't what really pisses me off. The things I didn't like about the Wayne era were the lack of effort, the lack of discipline, etc. Frankly sometimes this year it looks as bad as it ever did last season.

I understand that we need players like Taylor on the floor because he's important to the success of the team. But the fact is I pray to god I never see Taylor play one single minute at the point next season. If he does some of the stuff he did last night, with more depth on the team next season I want to see his *** on the bench immediately end of story. I have never watched a player I found more frustrating.

That being said, I think McDermott is an excellent coach and I see a lot of Sweet 16's in the future. I think a lot of what we are seeing as well is a function of lack of team depth and competition (much like we saw on the offensive line last year).

If there were a "god awfully terrible shots" stat, we would have filled that one up as well. We don't make the extra pass and play smart. Or, if we do make the extra pass, it's right to Hannah. It's just frustrating to watch is all.

[URBCLONE]

I think some of the guys scolding people need to remember what McD said when he took the job over. He said we'd play tough defense and play with discipline. I can handle losing, that isn't what really pisses me off. The things I didn't like about the Wayne era were the lack of effort, the lack of discipline, etc. Frankly sometimes this year it looks as bad as it ever did last season.

I'm with you Bryce. That was horrible to watch last night. I was not expecting the 'pinnacle' this season. By the same token, I did not expect to get blown out by 22 at home against Missouri. BTW - did you see the quote in the paper from WJ "We went into this game thinking we would win because we won down there". What? They actually believe that they will win just by showing up?

The talent level of the program is scary right now. How did it happen that ISU went from back to back conference championships to this? I lay a ton of blame at the feet of BVD and his inept coaching search back in '03.

[URBCLONE]

I think some of the guys scolding people need to remember what McD said when he took the job over. He said we'd play tough defense and play with discipline. I can handle losing, that isn't what really pisses me off. The things I didn't like about the Wayne era were the lack of effort, the lack of discipline, etc. Frankly sometimes this year it looks as bad as it ever did last season.

I'm with you Bryce. That was horrible to watch last night. I was not expecting the 'pinnacle' this season. By the same token, I did not expect to get blown out by 22 at home against Missouri. BTW - did you see the quote in the paper from WJ "We went into this game thinking we would win because we won down there". What? They actually believe that they will win just by showing up?

The talent level of the program is scary right now. How did it happen that ISU went from back to back conference championships to this? I lay a ton of blame at the feet of BVD and his inept coaching search back in '03.

[ISUFan22]

BTW - did you see the quote in the paper from WJ "We went into this game thinking we would win because we won down there". What? They actually believe that they will win just by showing up?

That's exactly how they played too...completely uninspired. G-Mac tried the past 2 days to get them motivated and ready for this game - using the seeding for the Big 12 tournament, etc.

Didn't take like I thought it would.

[jbhtexas]

The talent level of the program is scary right now. How did it happen that ISU went from back to back conference championships to this? I lay a ton of blame at the feet of BVD and his inept coaching search back in '03.

As far as lack of talent, LE started that mess. WM did recruit some talent, but most of it bailed when he left. And yes...it would have been better to take some time back in '03 and perform a more diligent MBB coaching search...

[ISUFan22]

And yes...it would have been better to take some time back in '03 and perform a more diligent MBB coaching search...

I don't think it was our search that was faulty. It was no one really wanted the job so we had to give it to Wayne. Plus, we were looking at a mass exodus then, as one of the stipulations any new coach had was to keep Wayne - in order to keep the recruits we had.

If you said letting our kids hold us hostage to an extent when looking for a new coach was the wrong thing to do - I can agree with that for the most part.

[URBCLONE]

That's exactly how they played too...completely uninspired. G-Mac tried the past 2 days to get them motivated and ready for this game - using the seeding for the Big 12 tournament, etc.

Didn't take like I thought it would.

You're exactly right. They played totally lethargic last night. GM even called the effort 'pitiful' on the post game interview. You would think they would have learned their lesson after the debacle at CU.

[ISUChippewa]

So, it seems like this post has turned into a historical perspective on how this program went wrong after two straight conference championships in the early part of the decade, which is just fine by me. I enjoy discussion.

I beleive that even without LE's public, alcohol-induced, meltdown that the program had stagnated and was losing traction. It seems that half of our ballyhooed recruits he got (Jerome Harper, Tommie King, Chris Alexander, etc.) didn't last long or didn't come to campus at all. Only playing half of the recruits you originally sign is a surefire way to hurt a program, and I think it's fair to put the blame squarely on LE's shoulders for numerous recruiting mistakes.

The '03 coaching search....I was frankly pretty happy with Wayne Morgan his first two years; a 20 victory season and a first-round NCAA win are pretty good places to start. Last season was an unmitigated flop, and while I questioned it at the time, I think that making a coaching change is the right way to go (especially after Gary Thompson, of all people, was quoted in the Register as saying that he felt the program lacked some discipline and direction). So, to be a revisionist, who should we have hired in '03? If Lebo had actually taken the job, how would he be doing right now? Personally, I would have taken Dana Altman in a heartbeat. I will never understand why it seemed that a fair amount of Cyclone fans regarded him as a horrible coach and possible choice.

[jbhtexas]

I'm with you Bryce. That was horrible to watch last night. I was not expecting the 'pinnacle' this season. By the same token, I did not expect to get blown out by 22 at home against Missouri. BTW - did you see the quote in the paper from WJ "We went into this game thinking we would win because we won down there". What? They actually believe that they will win just by showing up?

Some of them probably did believe that they could win by just showing up, because they are freshman and don't know any better.

You've heard the saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks"? Let me modify it slightly..."You can rarely teach a JUCO MBB transfer to play differently than he did at the JUCO". MT and CM are what they are. They are nearing the end of their third year playing college MBB and their play, barring a miracle, is not going change dramatically from what it is now. They play because they are the best option ISU has right now.

Realistically, unless the new freshman coming in are a bunch of Kevin Durants, ISU is going to be struggling for a couple of years. As someone posted in a thread a while back, ISU is where A&M was about 4 years ago. Good things can happen, but it will take time.

[ISUFan22]

Great points.

I reference to Altman - I think we made a run at him but received a quick stiff-arm.

[jbhtexas]

I don't think it was our search that was faulty. It was no one really wanted the job so we had to give it to Wayne. Plus, we were looking at a mass exodus then, as one of the stipulations any new coach had was to keep Wayne - in order to keep the recruits we had.

If you said letting our kids hold us hostage to an extent when looking for a new coach was the wrong thing to do - I can agree with that for the most part.

As it turns out, the mass exodus just got postponed by three years. It did seem that no one wanted the job back in '03, or perhaps it appeared that way because ISU was chasing a bunch of "big" names. I'm glad ADJP decided not to be held hostage...

[DaddyMac]

Personally, I would have taken Dana Altman in a heartbeat. I will never understand why it seemed that a fair amount of Cyclone fans regarded him as a horrible coach and possible choice.

I don't really recall that - ISU fans dissing Altman. I thought he'd be an excellent choice as well. Not sure he was my number one, but still and excellent hire. But as I recall, it wasn't ISU down on him, it was he down on ISU. He couldn't take his name out of the running fast enough, if I recall.

He did take an interview, didn't he? But that came off to me as less than genuine and an attempt to get his name out there and maybe see if we'd pay him and obscene amount of money.

IMO, the '03 fiasco is laid square at the feet of BVD. LE was responsible for what happened to him, and maybe he deserved what he got - I don't know. But the way BVD went about the firing and his ineptness in the hiring, well I'll just say that I'm glad he's gone.

[ISUFan22]

As it turns out, the mass exodus just got postponed by three years. It did seem that no one wanted the job back in '03, or perhaps it appeared that way because ISU was chasing a bunch of "big" names. I'm glad ADJP decided not to be held hostage...

IMO, the '03 fiasco is laid square at the feet of BVD. LE was responsible for what happened to him, and maybe he deserved what he got - I don't know. But the way BVD went about the firing and his ineptness in the hiring, well I'll just say that I'm glad he's gone.

I agree with both of you 100%.

While the current state of Cyclone basketball isn't great - I'm very excited for the future.

[ISUChippewa]

In regards to Altman, it may have been just a minority of Cyclone fans who were against hiring him, but it seemed at the time to be a VERY vocal and zealous minority who absolutely hated the guy.

You may be right that we never had a chance at Altman. I would be surprised if he does go to a BCS school, honestly. He has a pretty sweet setup for himself over there in Omaha.