Okay, here's a dumb question...

cloneaholic · 02-13-2007, 06:04 PM

Why can't Iowa State utilize its own expertise to help bowl in the football stadium for a fraction of the cost? We have outstanding architecture, landscape architecture, constuction engineering and civil engineering departments at Iowa State. Why don't we use them? I realize that they don't have the necessary equipment and workers to actually do the construction, but it seems like they could provide all the necessary expertise.

I had my garage built by the local high school building and trades class and I only paid for materials. They did a super job and I only paid a fraction of what I would have paid to have it built by a private contractor.

I know that adding onto a football stadium is very different than building a garage in your back yard, but it's the same principle. It just seems like the university is not taking advantage of its own incredible resources.

clonomaniac · 02-13-2007, 06:05 PM

are you serious?

that would be too easy...

besides, we don't want cheap - we want reliable, certified, companies with proven records to come in and help build our facilities.

i know what you are saying though, however, this is a major institution banking loads of $$$.. we want the best people to do the best work for isu, money shouldn't be a concern.. granted academic money do not build atheletic venues, but it produces enough graduates to help build the venues..

ISUFan22 · 02-13-2007, 06:07 PM

It's not just the building, but the building onto an existing structure. The precise scheduling. The intricate mechanicals that are needed for the digitron, etc.

This is no small task. One that must be handled by professionals.

Cyclone62 · 02-13-2007, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by cloneaholic

Why can't Iowa State utilize its own expertise to help bowl in the football stadium for a fraction of the cost? We have outstanding architecture, landscape architecture, constuction engineering and civil engineering departments at Iowa State. Why don't we use them? I realize that they don't have the necessary equipment and workers to actually do the construction, but it seems like they could provide all the necessary expertise.

Basically, the only thing I can see that the programs at ISU could actually have done would have been designing it. They wouldn't be able to really schedule it, build it, or do much after the design stage. Even then, I'd leave the design to a Grad Project. Which, in all honesty, I can't say they didn't do that. They easily could have had someone/a class design the look to go for, and then submitted it to a contractor with experience in the field to finalize and take over the project.

ColoradoClone · 02-13-2007, 06:31 PM

I believe they turned to RDG for the architecture.

Basically, anyone qualified to do this work has graduated and is working for someone. The others are still in school because they have more to learn. Have you ever gotten a question wrong on a test, or screwed up a math problem? Now imagine that 20,000 people are sitting on your mistake, and die.

Another plus side to going with outside companies is that they're insured. If something is screwed up or needs to be repaired, it's at they're expense. Our athletic department can't take the risk of going cheap.

cycloneworld · 02-13-2007, 06:37 PM

If I remember correctly...almost all of my professors are licensed engineers. Why couldn't grad students work on it with the oversight of a professional engineer?

It would be no different than what I'm doing now as a civil engineer. I don't have my license yet because I have to work under a licensed engineer for 4 years. I do the work but my boss reviews everything.

madcityCY · 02-13-2007, 06:42 PM

This would be a monumental task... even for the professors "overseeing." It's a 50 hr week (plus other classes). Contractual, legal, code, details... the list goes on and on... There would be soo much teaching and mentoring being done that A) nothing would get done. B) everything that would get done, the professors would do. Conceptual design maybe... many of the plans would likely get changed after a professional took over...

ColoradoClone · 02-13-2007, 06:43 PM

Again, the insurance issue. Even professionals screw up and run into unknowns. The Athletic department can't take those risks.

Also, how many of your professors aren't too busy to do this work, or would do it for free?

thakeepa14 · 02-13-2007, 06:45 PM

Hey guys....architecture grad here.
clonomaniac and isufan22 are right, we want the very best people working on this. But I can also tell you that these figures for improvements aren't shocking in any manner.......building for the public at this scale costs a lot of money. Simple things we take for granted like bathrooms, for example, are extremely expensive and can drive up the cost emensely. And we're talking a lot of toilets. Since HC and JT have gone unchanged for a while, we'd need even more fixtures to accomedate the same number of people plus the increased numbers Pollard is planning for. And that's just the bathrooms. Then comes concessions, suites, and D1 caliber recruiting eye candy....thus what you can a big price tag. (Any other experts would've probably come out about the same.)

During school, I often thought about how great it would be for students to have such an opportunity, and it's fun to joke about the resources right in front of us, but experience means a lot in designing something of this magnitude and I don't think there would be enough time for students to make up for their lack of experience in stadium design and meet Pollard's timeline... (However that isn't to say it couldn't be done and done well.)

mjones34 · 02-13-2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by cloneaholic

Why can't Iowa State utilize its own expertise to help bowl in the football stadium for a fraction of the cost? We have outstanding architecture, landscape architecture, constuction engineering and civil engineering departments at Iowa State. Why don't we use them? I realize that they don't have the necessary equipment and workers to actually do the construction, but it seems like they could provide all the necessary expertise.

I had my garage built by the local high school building and trades class and I only paid for materials. They did a super job and I only paid a fraction of what I would have paid to have it built by a private contractor.

I know that adding onto a football stadium is very different than building a garage in your back yard, but it's the same principle. It just seems like the university is not taking advantage of its own incredible resources.

I am a senior in Civil Engineernig AND I work at facilities on campus. First of all, only a professionally liscensed engineer can sign off on any design documents. To be a P.E. you must have four years experience. This would rule out all undergrad and grad students. Secondly, our professors would have no time to spend on designs for this. Thirdly, our in-house architects only do projects in house under the capital limit. (ISU's is 25,000 bucks). It takes a couple years to even go from the conceptual phase to the preliminary design (where the public actually hears about it). WE only have a couple in house engineers, and they spend ALL their time making sure existing structures are functioning properly. This project will always be outsourced because its impossible otherwise.

thakeepa14 · 02-13-2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by ColoradoClone

I believe they turned to RDG for the architecture.

Basically, anyone qualified to do this work has graduated and is working for someone. The others are still in school because they have more to learn. Have you ever gotten a question wrong on a test, or screwed up a math problem? Now imagine that 20,000 people are sitting on your mistake, and die.

Another plus side to going with outside companies is that they're insured. If something is screwed up or needs to be repaired, it's at they're expense. Our athletic department can't take the risk of going cheap.

It is RDG.

cycloneworld · 02-13-2007, 06:53 PM

Yeah, you guys are right. Good points. Professors wouldn't have near enough time for anything like this.

Also, you are probably looking at a 10-15% engineering/arch. fee. So $15 million in the grand scheme of things really isn't that much when you factor in the things you guys are talking about...risk, insurance, etc.

Good points all.

thakeepa14 · 02-13-2007, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by mjones34

I am a senior in Civil Engineernig AND I work at facilities on campus. First of all, only a professionally liscensed engineer can sign off on any design documents. To be a P.E. you must have four years experience. This would rule out all undergrad and grad students. Secondly, our professors would have no time to spend on designs for this. Thirdly, our in-house architects only do projects in house under the capital limit. (ISU's is 25,000 bucks). It takes a couple years to even go from the conceptual phase to the preliminary design (where the public actually hears about it). WE only have a couple in house engineers, and they spend ALL their time making sure existing structures are functioning properly. This project will always be outsourced because its impossible otherwise.

I agree as well. I was assuming that they would be overseen by licenced arch and eng who would eventually sign the drawings. This wouldn't require most of those working on it to be licenced, which would allow students to become involved... Possible but not likely or feasible.

ISUclones33 · 02-13-2007, 07:00 PM

it would be good subject matter for some classes however, maybe the architechture classes could come up with some reccomendations for how they as ISU fans and students would like to see it

loboclone · 02-13-2007, 07:05 PM

Alumni need income and work to contribute to ISU.....Students fill seats but don't contribute yet........RDG makes contributions..........all the above is valid