Anyone think Oden for OSU should have been T'ed up?

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Originally Posted by mwitt

Let's not sell Ohio State short. That was an amazing comeback. Butler still has to make the 25 foot 3 pointer, and Lewis still has to complete that huge and-one along with the game tying three.

And Oden still has to commit that flagrant foul. Oh, wait a second...

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Anytime u make four or five coaching bone head plays at the end of the game, the other team deserves to win. You have to play to win. It was like watching coach Mac football. You cant really call it an amazing come back when a cascade of bad decisions cost u the game.

Anytime u make four or five coaching bone head plays at the end of the game, the other team deserves to win. You have to play to win. It was like watching coach Mac football. You cant really call it an amazing come back when a cascade of bad decisions cost u the game.

Tell your team to work the clock instead of getting a good aggressive shot.
Not trying to foul Oden out. (by overtime it was to too late the big mo' was gone)
Bad inbounds pass.
No box out.
Don't guard the three.
Don't foul before the three.
Don't set up a play with 2 seconds left.



I could go on and on but an amazing comeback is usually made by amazing plays not one NBA 3 pointer at the end after a colossal brain fart by Xavier.

It's clear why the Xavier coach was was a great assistant not a great head coach. The's guys today are more salesmen than coaches. Just get the players and worry about coaching later.

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Originally Posted by Fletch

I could go on and on but an amazing comeback is usually made by amazing plays not one NBA 3 pointer at the end after a colossal brain fart by Xavier.

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I'm not sure we watched the same game, unless you only saw the last 10 seconds of regulation and overtime. They were down nine and scored 8 points in about 45 seconds.

So much on Oden, but not one person in this thread even mentioned the obvious foul on Lightey before the Oden thumping. Let's pretend for a second that the refs did their job on that foul. The Oden debate would not occur.

Cage missed the game winning free throw, plain and simple.

Should Miller have instructed his team to foul before tOSU had a chance to tie, or do you let someone take a low % shot with two men in the shooter's face?

I don't consider it bad coaching. I consider it clutch shooting.

Should have been an intentional foul and the ball for Xavier. That being said, the Xavier player should have made his free throws.

Everyone can point to the free throw, and perhaps justifiably so, but the fact remains that he shouldn't have been in that situation. Whether or not Ohio State was fouled on that drive doesn't excuse the referees refusing to call the blatent flagrant foul on Oden.

Missed free throws happen, but the ref's refusal to have the balls to make that call against the almighty Greg Oden and Ohio State indirectly led to that missed free throw haunting Cage for a very long time.

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Originally Posted by Fletch

Anytime u make four or five coaching bone head plays at the end of the game, the other team deserves to win. You have to play to win. It was like watching coach Mac football. You cant really call it an amazing come back when a cascade of bad decisions cost u the game.

Tell your team to work the clock instead of getting a good aggressive shot.
Not trying to foul Oden out. (by overtime it was to too late the big mo' was gone)
Bad inbounds pass.
No box out.
Don't guard the three.
Don't foul before the three.
Don't set up a play with 2 seconds left.

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Holy cow, so many ridiculous points, where to start...

• When you're up 9 with under 3 minutes to play I would think you'd want to work the clock and not be overly aggressive until the end of the shot clock.
• For one, they DID foul Oden out. For another, all they did was attack him coming down the stretch and make him foul out.
• Not sure which inbounds you're talking about here, maybe they did have a bad one so I'll give you that point.
• They got the big rebound that forced the questionable hard foul from Oden at the end, so I don't know how you can say "no box out" was a bad coaching move.
• As far as not guarding the 3, they had 2 guys getting a hand up on him...would it have been better coaching to send a third?
• Fouling once they got it into the front court would have been ignorant since you knew they were going to let fly with a 3 and you obviously wouldn't want to foul on a 3 and give a chance for a 4 point play. The worst thing that could happen if you don't foul is going to overtime. If you do foul you have a shot to lose in regulation.
• At the end, I can't be sure but I didn't think they had a timeout left. I might be wrong on that, but regardless with 2 seconds your chances are just as good to get a decent look up if you can catch them confused in transition.

Now, all of this didn't matter because Ohio St. made a huge shot and played out of their minds in OT. However, you can't fault the coaching there at all. Oden was already fouled out and the worst thing that could have happened the way they played it was to go to overtime where OSU would be without their best player. If he'd have had them foul and the guy hits the 4 point play then THAT would have been stupid coaching. Just my 2 cents.

Probably. However, Xavier let the lead slip away and allowed themselves to be dominated in overtime with Oden on the bench. They have themselves to blame for losing.

Yes. Period.

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Originally Posted by mwitt

I'm not sure we watched the same game, unless you only saw the last 10 seconds of regulation and overtime. They were down nine and scored 8 points in about 45 seconds.

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I yeah they were actually down 8 with 2:54 left so you must have been watching something else.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=274000034

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Originally Posted by tigershoops31

Holy cow, so many ridiculous points, where to start...

• When you're up 9 with under 3 minutes to play I would think you'd want to work the clock and not be overly aggressive until the end of the shot clock.
• For one, they DID foul Oden out. For another, all they did was attack him coming down the stretch and make him foul out.
• Not sure which inbounds you're talking about here, maybe they did have a bad one so I'll give you that point.
• They got the big rebound that forced the questionable hard foul from Oden at the end, so I don't know how you can say "no box out" was a bad coaching move.
• As far as not guarding the 3, they had 2 guys getting a hand up on him...would it have been better coaching to send a third?
• Fouling once they got it into the front court would have been ignorant since you knew they were going to let fly with a 3 and you obviously wouldn't want to foul on a 3 and give a chance for a 4 point play. The worst thing that could happen if you don't foul is going to overtime. If you do foul you have a shot to lose in regulation.
• At the end, I can't be sure but I didn't think they had a timeout left. I might be wrong on that, but regardless with 2 seconds your chances are just as good to get a decent look up if you can catch them confused in transition.

Now, all of this didn't matter because Ohio St. made a huge shot and played out of their minds in OT. However, you can't fault the coaching there at all. Oden was already fouled out and the worst thing that could have happened the way they played it was to go to overtime where OSU would be without their best player. If he'd have had them foul and the guy hits the 4 point play then THAT would have been stupid coaching. Just my 2 cents.

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-Let me clarify. When I say run time off, get the clock down to around 20 seconds, run your sets and take a good shot when it is there. Don't stall until 5 or 8 seconds left and throw up junk. They don't have players that can operate in that window.

-They fouled oden out at the end of regulation (too late, way too late) He picked up #4 with 5 minutes left in regulation.

-They didn't guard the 3. There were two guys in the area because there was a rub and hand off. And the guy guarding the screener didn't step out. I don't know what kind of wayne morgan guarding the three defense that is? (ps. the third guy left his man and was no where near the shooter when the ball left his hand)

-As for the box out. On the rebound the first guy to get to the ball was an OSU player. But due to the athletic superiority maybe this is a moot point.

-Ignorant? Are you kidding, if they hit both free throws they are still up 1. U don't even have to foul the guy with the ball. Even if they hit the first and make the second then what OSU runs the magical rebound tip play which works 1 out of a 100000 times? That was probably the dumbest decision of all. I'm not really sure how u thought I meant to foul while shooting? (Oden had aready fouled out, he wouldn't have been a problem on miss ft.)

-Watching pretty much every game of the tourney for the last 3 years I have never seen a team inbound the ball in NEAR THEIR BASKET with 2 seconds catching the other team off guard and making a shot. Especially after catching it in the back court and trying to dribble. I am not saying Christan Latner is walking through that door, but you owe it to yourself draw something up and throw it in past half court. (Hook and ladder, or screen the guy guarding the out of bounds pass)

You are right about overtime, the game was over. Mo' had switched and they didn't have a chance. I actually would have felt bad for Oden if they would have lost. He seems like a classy guy.

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Originally Posted by Fletch

--Ignorant? Are you kidding, if they hit both free throws they are still up 1. U don't even have to foul the guy with the ball. Even if they hit the first and make the second then what OSU runs the magical rebound tip play which works 1 out of a 100000 times? That was probably the dumbest decision of all. I'm not really sure how u thought I meant to foul while shooting? (Oden had aready fouled out, he wouldn't have been a problem on miss ft.)

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Thanks for the clarification...after hearing your reasoning for most of the things you said, I can at least understand why you would call them contributors to Xavier blowing the lead. This one though I will never agree with. I know you weren't saying to foul while shooting, but what I'm saying is that once it's in the halfcourt set and a team is down 3 you should NEVER foul. Once a smart player sees somebody going for the foul he's going to fire one up since they need the three anyway, giving them a chance for the 4 point play. Even if he doesn't get the shot off, you are still giving them that outside chance to win by fouling. If you don't foul, the have a CHANCE to make a 3 to tie it, sending the game to overtime, but there is no way that you lose. If you do foul, they have a CHANCE to make the first, miss the second and rebound, possibly getting either a 3 point play on a put back or a kick out for three where you lose. I would rather have a scenario where there's a chance of overtime and no chance of losing in regulation than a slightly better chance of going to overtime and a chance to lose in regulation.

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Originally Posted by tigershoops31

Thanks for the clarification...after hearing your reasoning for most of the things you said, I can at least understand why you would call them contributors to Xavier blowing the lead. This one though I will never agree with. I know you weren't saying to foul while shooting, but what I'm saying is that once it's in the halfcourt set and a team is down 3 you should NEVER foul. Once a smart player sees somebody going for the foul he's going to fire one up since they need the three anyway, giving them a chance for the 4 point play. Even if he doesn't get the shot off, you are still giving them that outside chance to win by fouling. If you don't foul, the have a CHANCE to make a 3 to tie it, sending the game to overtime, but there is no way that you lose. If you do foul, they have a CHANCE to make the first, miss the second and rebound, possibly getting either a 3 point play on a put back or a kick out for three where you lose. I would rather have a scenario where there's a chance of overtime and no chance of losing in regulation than a slightly better chance of going to overtime and a chance to lose in regulation.

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Yeah, I guess it comes down to preference. I hear this being debated all the time.

I agree that the shove by Oden could have easliy been called an intentional foul.
You so often hear coaches say that they want the players to decide the outcome at the end of the game, not the refs. Particularly so for a tournament game. That's basically what happened here, the refs stayed away from making the game ending call and let the the players control the outcome.

Oden will be chop liver for three years if he goes pro. Durant will average 20 in the pros.

After the game, Oden called it a bullcrap foul. Tsk, tsk.