ISU Football

[bmuff]

A Chaplin that's also a S&C coach - wow. That makes 2 S&C coaches if this goes thru. Does Chizik know how to line them up... Twice as strong physically and strong spiritually - no one's gonna push us over this year!

Actually, that would make 4 S&C coaches. Sheppard has two full-time, paid assistants.

[jmb]

GC acknowledged that every team has a chaplian, this however would be different. This guys is going to be with the team anytime they are together lifitng,team meetings etc. Not someone there on game day, but regularly.

j

[Klubber]

I think the question here is, "Why does someone serving in this role (chaplain or counseler, etc.) have to be associated with a certain religion?"

A Christian team chaplain would be no better able to help a player than a non-religious team counselor. And, with our players coming from all walks of life and cultural and religious backgrounds, I think a team counselor without a specific religious denomination would be a better choice.

[Klubber]

If our coaches were as you say,"godless", would they be less capable of doing their jobs?

While a coach's religion of choice or lack thereof may matter to those who share the same, it doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to W's and L's, or developing young men as quality student athletes.

[cyclonekj]

I think the question here is, "Why does someone serving in this role (chaplain or counseler, etc.) have to be associated with a certain religion?"

A Christian team chaplain would be no better able to help a player than a non-religious team counselor. And, with our players coming from all walks of life and cultural and religious backgrounds, I think a team counselor without a specific religious denomination would be a better choice.

Only the people who have been against this are suggesting that the chaplain would be pushing Christianity. It is possible to give advice based on one's religious beliefs without forcing those beliefs on the receiver of said advice.

What specifically are you asking for in "someone without a specific religious denomination?" A non-religious person? Please help me understand your viewpoint.

I disagree that a non-religious person is as well-equipped as a religious person to council others, but that's another topic for another day.

[RedStorm]

This is a trained guy, he knows football and problems football players have, to may people are hung up on the religion thing. And counselors are no good....they are to clinical and can't relate to the players. The "key" issue here is the guy is going to be part of the team and the players will be comfortble approaching him....that is the key issue.

[cyclonekj]

If our coaches were as you say,"godless", would they be less capable of doing their jobs?

While a coach's religion of choice or lack thereof may matter to those who share the same, it doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to W's and L's, or developing young men as quality student athletes.

Character affects success and there is a correlation between character and faith. It's not impossible to have one without the other, but there is a relationship between the two.

[herbiedoobie]

The problem with "counselors" is that they have absolutely no moral foundation to make their advice genuine. And kids aren't as stupid as adults, and realize that nearly 100% of what comes out of "counselors'" mouths is b.s. Without recognizing a basic moral foundation, a murderer has the innate right to murder. It's just his/her personal choice of what they find right. Your counselor can help that individual "deal with those feelings", but in the end, if the murderer is convinced in the rightness of their beliefs, they will go out and murder anyway. Someone with a strong moral foundation should be able to take on an individuals' beliefs that are wrong, provided they are courageous.

And, by definition, a "chaplain" cannot be focused on one religion, or proselytize. A "chaplain's" job is to facilitate moral development. And if an individual who happens to be a Wiccan wants help in facilitating a personal crisis within the framework of his/her Wiccan beliefs, the chaplain is obligated to help them in that direction/marry them up with someone of the Wiccan faith to allow that to happen.

I have 25 years experience dealing with chaplains in the military, and have never seen or heard of someone having an issue with it that could not be easily accommodated.

[Angie]

I'm a little baffled by Whitey and Angie, this whole idea of if one person doesn't like it we can't have it is far too prevalent already in our society.

To be clear - I'm not saying this is a horrible idea. And I am Christian - I just don't feel that everyone else has to be. I just think that having a person who is specifically there to "guide" people who preaches only to one line of faith is a little too specific. I think it's great to encourage the faith of the team, and to use it to mold them into honorable young men - I just think that someone doing it should withhold their own faith as a factor. There are so very many different resources on campus already for specific denominations - as I said before, it would be perfectly appropriate to work closely with those organizations.

For those opposed to this idea, would you object if this person was called a "counselor" instead of "chaplain?" Would you prefer the counselor to be an atheist? Agnostic? Should our other coaches and staff also be godless? I wouldn't discriminate against a counselor of a different religion. In fact, I can't imagine that I would ask for a religious background before accepting somebody's advice.

I actually do think a "counselor" is a good idea - and, as I said, I'm not opposed to the idea of a chaplain. I don't think that the individual's personal faith (whether "chaplain" or "counselor") matters - I think what is presented to the team does. These boys have families of their own that have raised them in certain faiths - if I were Muslim or Jehovah's Witness, I would probably be uncomfortable with this idea. A lot of this depends on if the chaplain is actively seeking out the boys to guide/advise them, or if he/she is letting them come to him (as a "counselor" generally would). I am not criticizing Coach or questioning anything - merely voicing an opinion that I think a lot of people would have.

Like I said - I think that this is a very interesting idea, I just think that it could be implemented in a more universal way. This isn't a slight against anyone or their beliefs.

[Wesley]

Hire a counseler who is also a chaplain. He can be either /or. I think the bball team needs him also.

[Splendid]

I'm a proud Christian but it doesn't matter to me if GC chooses a Jewish, Buddist, Muslam or any other type of religious leader for our boys as long as he is a good person and good at what he does.

Just because Phil Jackson preaches zen phylosophy at every chance doesn't make me think his players are all going to convert to Buddhism. Just the oposite, maybe having a non Christian religious person bringing a different slant would be good for the team. But at the same time, don't criticize GC if he wants to bring in a Christian he thinks is the best for the team.

[Gary_ISU]

To be clear - I'm not saying this is a horrible idea. And I am Christian - I just don't feel that everyone else has to be.

If I may ask a follow up question, what do you mean by "I just don't feel that everyone else has to be?"

Do you mean that everyone has the freedom to either accept or reject Christianity? Basically, it is a free will choice so not everyone has to be a Christian.

Or do you mean that there are other religions similar to Christianity and what Christianity is all about and has to offer? Meaning you do not have to be a Christian and it will all be okay.

I agree that not everyone has to be a Christian. I think all should be. It is a free will choice that has very permanent and eternal consequences.

[Angie]

Not to go off on a rant here, but is everybody still harboring the immense pain of getting picked last in kickball? I can't remember ever, in my life, feeling alienated, or maybe I did, and then I got over it.

I am so sick of this whole world view where we don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable about themselves, so we have to remove all standards and morals to make sure of it. Then we sit back and wonder why the world is going to hell, and point the finger at someone else.

I don't think this was necessarily warranted. Nobody is making this about their own abandonment issues. Nor is this about being "politically correct". This is about letting people practice their faith (one of the most important things they can do) in their own way and however they choose. This is also a part of our founding beliefs of our country - much like separation of church and state. If we were a Christian private school (many of which would have taken these athletes, if they're playing in the Big 10), I would be all for this.

If I may ask a follow up question, what do you mean by "I just don't feel that everyone else has to be?"

Do you mean that everyone has the freedom to either accept or reject Christianity? Basically, it is a free will choice so not everyone has to be a Christian.

Or do you mean that there are other religions similar to Christianity and what Christianity is all about and has to offer? Meaning you do not have to be a Christian and it will all be okay.

I agree that not everyone has to be a Christian. I think all should be. It is a free will choice that has very permanent and eternal consequences.

I believe 100% with your last paragraph. That is how I feel, as well - I was going to be a minister for a while, so I very much agree with your sentiments. However, I am just talking about a state-funded institution pushing my personal agenda. I am not offended by the idea, I just could very easily see how people would be.

[isugcs]

This is also a part of our founding beliefs of our country - much like separation of church and state.

Actually, the Constitution does not contain any clause or section mandating "the separation of church and state." It may be a modern day belief, but not founding belief. However, the freedom to choose and practice any religion, or lack thereof, is protected under the Constitution.

[Whitey]

The problem with "counselors" is that they have absolutely no moral foundation to make their advice genuine. And kids aren't as stupid as adults, and realize that nearly 100% of what comes out of "counselors'" mouths is b.s. Without recognizing a basic moral foundation, a murderer has the innate right to murder. It's just his/her personal choice of what they find right. Your counselor can help that individual "deal with those feelings", but in the end, if the murderer is convinced in the rightness of their beliefs, they will go out and murder anyway. Someone with a strong moral foundation should be able to take on an individuals' beliefs that are wrong, provided they are courageous.

If saying that your a Christian, or associating yourself with a faith gives you moral credibility, then I'm left wondering why there are so many Christians in our prisons. I guess I judge people based upon their actions. Having received a number of sacraments from the Catholic church does not have me believing that all priests are moral.

I guess that I feel that a religious mentor is easy enough to find. In Ames, you can't throw a handful of rice without hitting a church. I would like to see somebody with some academic credential such, as a psych degree, available to our players. If they have a faith, great. A good counselor will be able to figure out whether or not that is the best means to reach their target audience. However, if the the target audience doesn't have faith, someone with an academic background might have more means to reach the person.