Missed the Big 12 title game...touche as that was some fantastic D!Quote:
Originally Posted by cayin
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Missed the Big 12 title game...touche as that was some fantastic D!Quote:
Originally Posted by cayin
The difference between Clayborn and Suh isn't that much? Really? I think it is huge. Suh was the 2nd pick of the draft...experts generally agreed that he was the best overall player. Many would say he's the best DL to play college football since Warren Sapp, if not further back. Clayborn "may" be a top 10 pick. He might be the best DE in the country this year...because the UNC kid got suspended. He's a good player and all, but he's no Suh. Not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoewDog
As for Asante vs Spivey, two different positions. CB is a more valuable position. Not to mention, Akumura (or whatever) is rated the top CB in the 2011 draft right now.
Iowa has a fine defense. But, from watching them on the field both vs ISU, it wasn't even close to Nebraska's last year.
Whoopty doo?Quote:
Originally Posted by tazclone
I can only assess the arguments based on what's actually written. All you mentioned was the fact that Iowa's D gave up 17 points. I realized it was a poor argument and pointed out why. If you want to run to the stat sheet to tell me how the Neb/Arizona game compares to one you apparently didn't watch, go ahead, but it was your oversight that begged for a correction.
And Nebraska didn't do better against every common opponent. At home versus ISU, Nebraska gave up 9 and forced no turnovers against a second string offense. On the road, Iowa gave up 3 and forced 6 turnovers. You can point to yardage totals, but you should probably factor in that Iowa played against a really good rb in their game.
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Originally Posted by tazclone
Why are you comparing stats from both 2009 squads when the question was Nebraska 2009 vs Iowa 2010? Iowa's defensive line wasn't far behind Nebraska last year and Iowa returned their top 6 guys at least.
It's really a dumb argument that can't be won.
Wow, don't even know where to start. but here I goQuote:
Originally Posted by LoewDog
- Defense requires more then 2-3 players. It requires 11 so you have to include those honorable mention players. If you want to look at NFL from last year it is a wash. Pure and simple. Three players taken one much higher one much lower and some in between. Whooppty do. The draft tells you nothing. Example... Baluga was taken in the first round for a bad Green bay OL Stephens in the 5th and both are back ups for bad OLs. doesn't mean anything besides team needs.
2) Keep on track here as we are talking defense and not team so take your team rankings and flush them. Nebraska hands down played against better offenses. I have had this convo many times with hok fans so I will let you look up the rankings because I am tired of educating hok fans. Georgia Tech is the best offense Iowa played all yeear they were ranked 26th in total and 15th in scoring. For comparison, Texas was 29th and 3rd. Texas Tech was 4th and 7th, Oklahoma was 23rd and 29. Notice I don't mention Mizzou, VT. NEBRASKA'S DEFENSE PLAYED BETTER OFFENSES AND PERFORMED BETTER! That isn't that hard to see.
3)But hey if you want to include team rankings, why did you not include Texas?
Ugh. iowa faced horrible offenses. Horrible offenses. tOSU doesn't fit the "good offense" description. They were 68th in total and 49th in scoring.
So please don't give me the "tougher competition". Argument. Nebraska's defense faced much, much more potent offenses than iowa and they performed better.
I don't think that there should be a conversation because Nebraska not only had a GREAT scoring defense but they had a great TOTAL defense. They were the TOTAL package. They faced better offenses than iowa and had better stats in every category except passing defense and that was very close.
While you are accusing me of wearing cardinal and gold glasses, you should look in the mirror. I at least know the players on both teams. I watched both teams play. I know their competition (better than you) and I know the stats.
Your formed you opinion before knowing the facts. You claim iowa is better because Speivey got taken higher than Asante in the draft. That is all you have going for you. Your rankings don't even support your argument as they are team rankings not offensive rankings. You don't even know the name of the Nebraska players and I doubt you watched them play.
Typical hok. form an opinion based on half truths and half the facts.
It is probably best to wait until Iowa's defense actually plays somebody besides a very marginal Div. 2 team. As far as last year, the NU defense against ISU was much better, even though ISU scored on them. If Iowa turned the ball over 8 times, instead of ISU turning it over 6, then I think ISU would have scored a few more points on them.
ISU also had how many more possessions in the Nebbie game? BTW- I did watch the iowa AZ game. Just forgot about stanzi's pick 6. I should have remembered because he throws so many.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbIowa
Having watched boith the ISU/iowa game and ISU/Neb game. There is absolutely no comparison as to which defense was better. Quick question...how many Nebraska games did you watch last year?
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Originally Posted by Gitwitit
- You can't draw any conclusions about iowa's defense this year after one game against a D1AA team. It is just silly so the convo switched to last year.
- So Angerer, Edds and Speivey weren't in the top six of iowa's defense last year
- I would say that iowa's DL was far behind. I would say that Nebraska was better at three out of the four positions.
Only an idiot would conclude that a defense palying at home and going against a team that gave up a td and fg against ISU with a backup qb and backup rb was clearly better than the team that gave up 3 points and forced 6 turnovers on the road. The fact that you can't give Iowa credit for playing ISU better (maybe you don't think A-Rob is that good, so we could disagree there) tells me all I need to know about your thought process in this debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by tazclone
I watched Nebraska in 3 games. ISU, Texas, Arizona. They were clearly playing as good as any college D ever those last two games.
I can admit when I have been bested! You have made a very compelling argument supported by facts and I can honestly say that I was wrong. You have convinced me...and you are right in that I assessed the situation not knowing as much about the Big 12 as I should.
The only thing that detracted from the nice job you did were the little DB comments in there which make you come off as arrogant and snide...things clone fans often claim of Hawks (which goes towards my belief that both fan bases have the same percentages of each kind of fan).
If Iowa's starters turned the ball over 6 times against ISU, Cyclone fans would give credit to their defense for playing great. When Iowa forces 6 turnovers on defense, Cyclone fans want to hide it behind other stats and talk about how great Nebraska was at keeping the backup qb and backup rb from getting more yards. It's funny how quickly forcing turnovers can lose importance.Quote:
Originally Posted by CyCloned
I'm not going to address all the lack of judgement issues with the Iowa fans. Just a few:
Prince Amukamara will be a 1st round draft pick, barring injury. At two off season scouting combines (yes, scouting firms have them for upcoming seniors) Amukamara was rated as the top NFL prospect in both of them. He is definitely better than Spievey.
I would sound like too much of a homer addressing the other issues, but my Cyclone friends have done a nice job making my arguments for me, which are always better coming from an uninterested third party.
Regards to the 2009 vs. 2009 comparison, I have to do everything in my power to stop myself from laughing when a Hawkeye fan tries to argue with me their defense was better in 2009. Ha.
Most of the turnovers (interceptions) Iowa had last year vs ISU were gifts - I could have intercepted the passes Sash did. He's overrated due to playing behind a bunch of studs.
Now with the exception of the the one fumble by the NU WR, I believe the remainder of the turnovers ISU had vs Nebby were 'forced'.
When all is said and done, a turnover is a a turnover, but hopefully this year in Kinnick the only one gifting turnovers is Stanzi and the Hok O.
And for those people hanging their hats on the fact that Nebraska had 8 turnovers so the defense was on the field all day, you might like to know that Iowa State ran 65 plays against Iowa and 67 against ISU primarily thanks to 4 more first downs picked up primarily by a healthy A-Rob.
And don't get lost folks, I'm not arguing that Iowa's D was better than Nebraska's D last year. But cherry picking Nebraska's best two game stretch and comparing it to the Iowa/Arizona game (while acting like Iowa's D gave up a meaningful 17 points) or arguing that Nebraska played better against ISU isn't going to cut it. There were a number of good arguments made in favor of Nebraska's defense, but those two are weak.
You Hawk fans are as dumb as rocks. Iowa did play good sound defense, but AA just plain threw the Iowa game away. Remember when ISU beat Iowa in IC, and Iowa had 5 TOs? Well, ISU had guys in the right places to make plays, but that was not great defense. I would be the last to claim that ISU played great defense against NU last year. The Cyclones were fighting hard to get TOs, but in the end, they were just plain lucky.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbIowa