Why this Loss helps us...

**aeroclone** · 09-13-2010, 09:54 AM

I still think a lot of you guys are guzzling the kool-aid. Yeah, I had this game down as a loss before the season, but I think what we saw here firmed up some concerns that aren't going to just go away because we don't have to play a team as good as Iowa next week.

We have no offense against competition with a pulse. Most of last year, we chalked it up to Arob being hurt, but we were back healthy in the bowl game and scored what, 14 points? Last week against an NIU team that now looks to be not quite as good as advertised, outside of his one long run he averaged like 2.5 per carry. Against Iowa we did nothing at all. We just don't have the horses up front to establish the running game against a decent defense. And as has been established in about 100 threads since Saturday, AA isn't a good enough QB to be able to pass to setup the run. We have to establish the run first.

I was thinking 5-7 or 6-6 coming into the year, but that was based on an improved offense to help take the heat off of a defense that may not be as deep or experienced as what we had last year. Problem is, while it looks like the D does have some growing to do as expected, if looks like all the progress we heard about the offense making in the off-season just didn't happen.

Here is where I see our season now...

KSU - Loss - can't stop their running game, can't score enough to keep up
UNI - Win
TT - Loss - see KSU, replace running with passing
Utah - Loss - they are still a very good team this year
OU - Loss
UT - Loss
KU - Win - Though not feeling as good about this as last week
NU - Loss - I think we can stop their O, but I have no idea how we will score
CU - Win - may be asking a lot though, we don't win at Boulder very often
MU - Loss - Still think they have more talent than us

4-8. There it is kids. Maybe we could pull out a KSU or MU win, but I could also see CU or KU turning into a loss. There is no room for error in this schedule if we want to make a bowl, and I didn't see a team out there on Saturday that looked like they could win all of the toss-up games in order to have another winning season.

**driegner** · 09-13-2010, 10:05 AM

I'm still convinced this game wasn't lost on defense.

If we had not gone 3-and-out on offense our defense wouldn't have been exhausted by the second quarter.

Never, EVER underestimate the importance of getting the defense off the field. If the other team scores, the defense needs more than 60 seconds off the field or, DUH, the same thing will happen.

Did anybody else notice that when the defense FINALLY got a break they made a stop? That isn't a coincidence. The D can only make adjustments on the sideline, and they spent about 3 minutes on the sideline in the first quarter.

I blame the anemic offense. ANY defense that spends 12+ minutes per quarter on the field will break down. Especially ours.

**atlantacyclone** · 09-13-2010, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by aeroclone

I still think a lot of you guys are guzzling the kool-aid. Yeah, I had this game down as a loss before the season, but I think what we saw here firmed up some concerns that aren't going to just go away because we don't have to play a team as good as Iowa next week.

We have no offense against competition with a pulse. Most of last year, we chalked it up to Arob being hurt, but we were back healthy in the bowl game and scored what, 14 points? Last week against an NIU team that now looks to be not quite as good as advertised, outside of his one long run he averaged like 2.5 per carry. Against Iowa we did nothing at all. We just don't have the horses up front to establish the running game against a decent defense. And as has been established in about 100 threads since Saturday, AA isn't a good enough QB to be able to pass to setup the run. We have to establish the run first.

I was thinking 5-7 or 6-6 coming into the year, but that was based on an improved offense to help take the heat off of a defense that may not be as deep or experienced as what we had last year. Problem is, while it looks like the D does have some growing to do as expected, if looks like all the progress we heard about the offense making in the off-season just didn't happen.

Here is where I see our season now...

KSU - Loss - can't stop their running game, can't score enough to keep up
UNI - Win
TT - Loss - see KSU, replace running with passing
Utah - Loss - they are still a very good team this year
OU - Loss
UT - Loss
KU - Win - Though not feeling as good about this as last week
NU - Loss - I think we can stop their O, but I have no idea how we will score
CU - Win - may be asking a lot though, we don't win at Boulder very often
MU - Loss - Still think they have more talent than us

4-8. There it is kids. Maybe we could pull out a KSU or MU win, but I could also see CU or KU turning into a loss. There is no room for error in this schedule if we want to make a bowl, and I didn't see a team out there on Saturday that looked like they could win all of the toss-up games in order to have another winning season.

If we play like we did against Iowa we will not win another game. We need a turnaround a la Kansas week one to week two to have a shot at any team. The only good thing that I can think of is that we might be overlooked by some of our future opponents. This team has talent, but we haven't seen much of it yet this season.

**d4nim4l** · 09-13-2010, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by aeroclone

I still think a lot of you guys are guzzling the kool-aid. Yeah, I had this game down as a loss before the season, but I think what we saw here firmed up some concerns that aren't going to just go away because we don't have to play a team as good as Iowa next week.

We have no offense against competition with a pulse. Most of last year, we chalked it up to Arob being hurt, but we were back healthy in the bowl game and scored what, 14 points? Last week against an NIU team that now looks to be not quite as good as advertised, outside of his one long run he averaged like 2.5 per carry. Against Iowa we did nothing at all. We just don't have the horses up front to establish the running game against a decent defense. And as has been established in about 100 threads since Saturday, AA isn't a good enough QB to be able to pass to setup the run. We have to establish the run first.

I was thinking 5-7 or 6-6 coming into the year, but that was based on an improved offense to help take the heat off of a defense that may not be as deep or experienced as what we had last year. Problem is, while it looks like the D does have some growing to do as expected, if looks like all the progress we heard about the offense making in the off-season just didn't happen.

Here is where I see our season now...

KSU - Loss - can't stop their running game, can't score enough to keep up
UNI - Win
TT - Loss - see KSU, replace running with passing
Utah - Loss - they are still a very good team this year
OU - Loss
UT - Loss
KU - Win - Though not feeling as good about this as last week
NU - Loss - I think we can stop their O, but I have no idea how we will score
CU - Win - may be asking a lot though, we don't win at Boulder very often
MU - Loss - Still think they have more talent than us

4-8. There it is kids. Maybe we could pull out a KSU or MU win, but I could also see CU or KU turning into a loss. There is no room for error in this schedule if we want to make a bowl, and I didn't see a team out there on Saturday that looked like they could win all of the toss-up games in order to have another winning season.

We beat Minnesota by a point because of four turnovers. Moving the ball was not a problem in the bowl game. Our offense starts and stops with Arnaud and his turnovers. If he hangs on to the ball we always find a way to move it. Just look at NIU. We moved it until we turned it over deep in their territory.

4-8 is perfectly reasonable but Iowa clearly showed us what we have to do to get better and that is move the ball on offense and play at least some form of contain on defense.

Like everyone said, never underestimate what happens when a defense gets left on the field. Few defenses in the country can be out there as long as ours was and have any success.

**jdoggivjc** · 09-13-2010, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by clonomaniac

I highly doubt its true. Most fans still think we should have at least 4 more wins. Once again, this Iowa team is dangerously good. I have been a Hawk hater all my life and I am saying this about them this year. The credit is much deserved. Kirky finally got a good chance to take them to the promised land.

Case in point #3...

Originally Posted by atlantacyclone

If we play like we did against Iowa we will not win another game. We need a turnaround a la Kansas week one to week two to have a shot at any team. The only good thing that I can think of is that we might be overlooked by some of our future opponents. This team has talent, but we haven't seen much of it yet this season.

**jdoggivjc** · 09-13-2010, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by d4nim4l

We beat Minnesota by a point because of four turnovers. Moving the ball was not a problem in the bowl game. Our offense starts and stops with Arnaud and his turnovers. If he hangs on to the ball we always find a way to move it. Just look at NIU. We moved it until we turned it over deep in their territory.

4-8 is perfectly reasonable but Iowa clearly showed us what we have to do to get better and that is move the ball on offense and play at least some form of contain on defense.

Like everyone said, never underestimate what happens when a defense gets left on the field. Few defenses in the country can be out there as long as ours was and have any success.

Ironically, we faced one of those defenses on Saturday.

**temperflare** · 09-13-2010, 10:13 AM

I remember when we beat 9th ranked Iowa 23-3 a Hawk fan, and friend of mine, totally lost it. He swore up and down they'd be lucky to win another game all season. I thought, man... what a sack! It's one game. If I remember correctly, Iowa finished with a pretty good record that year.

Now we have Cyclones doing it. Imagine that. The same applies here.

I agree that this loss could definately help us. Its an indicator to the coaches and players that they had better work hard each day or there will be more losses like this one. They'd better get their stuff together if they want to go somewhere this year. Its a good reality check.

**d4nim4l** · 09-13-2010, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Ironically, we faced one of those defenses on Saturday.

Absolutely. Believe it or not, it just isn't talent, it's depth as well. Iowa has it, we do not.

These things take time. Thank god Iowa didn't have a message board when Ferentz took over in 1999...

**josh777** · 09-13-2010, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by driegner

I'm still convinced this game wasn't lost on defense.

If we had not gone 3-and-out on offense our defense wouldn't have been exhausted by the second quarter.

Never, EVER underestimate the importance of getting the defense off the field. If the other team scores, the defense needs more than 60 seconds off the field or, DUH, the same thing will happen.

Did anybody else notice that when the defense FINALLY got a break they made a stop? That isn't a coincidence. The D can only make adjustments on the sideline, and they spent about 3 minutes on the sideline in the first quarter.

I blame the anemic offense. ANY defense that spends 12+ minutes per quarter on the field will break down. Especially ours.

So, did the D start the game exhausted then? They were plowed down the field on the opening drive and this continued throughout the first half and into the 3rd. Of course there were stops by the D, that happens in every game. The game lost in the trenches on both sides of the ball, plain and simple. Iowa's lines dominated ISU's lines.

And to the OP, no this game was not more successful than last year. This game was the most lopsided in the series since the 90s. The score at the end was the first team O vs. Iowa's 2nd and 3rd team D. Also, with 2:00 minutes left and ahead 35-0 don't you think a team loses a little fire to stop the other team?? the game is completely in hand. Last year, ISU scored first was playing fairly well on both sides of the ball in the trenches...turnovers were the glaring difference then.

**CyCloned** · 09-13-2010, 10:23 AM

I don't think any loss, especially a big loss, is good for your team. I am hoping that Iowa truely is good this year and that is why it was such a beatdown. Over the years we have seen Iowa look very impressive one week and then struggle against a bad team a week later. If they go out to AZ and loose by 20, then it is time to worry again.

**VeloClone** · 09-13-2010, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by CycloneYoda

Why a win would have helped more: 2-0

There you go again bringing facts into it. Knock it off, you aren't impressing anyone.

**Tornado man** · 09-13-2010, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by clonomaniac

We actually played a little better than last year. Less interceptions and at least one touchdown against a better Iowa team than last year. I understand that we still sucked, however its a big help to know where we need to improve and what areas we can keep "as is".

No, this game was much worse than last year. Also, a loss like this plants doubt in the players's own minds tand in their confidence that the coaching staff is leading them down the right path.
Not saying it's devastating or crippling, but to try to maintain that the Iowa loss helps us is just not true.

**d30fan** · 09-13-2010, 11:14 AM

I hate to imagine the impact viewing this game had on potential recruits. Has to make it a bit harder to recruit the kid who wants a "winning team", but could help with the kid who wants to play immediately.

**CyBobby** · 09-13-2010, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by CycloneYoda

Why a win would have helped more: 2-0

according to jack whitver a win would also have helped In State Recruiting.....

**aeroclone** · 09-13-2010, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by d4nim4l

We beat Minnesota by a point because of four turnovers. Moving the ball was not a problem in the bowl game. Our offense starts and stops with Arnaud and his turnovers. If he hangs on to the ball we always find a way to move it. Just look at NIU. We moved it until we turned it over deep in their territory.

4-8 is perfectly reasonable but Iowa clearly showed us what we have to do to get better and that is move the ball on offense and play at least some form of contain on defense.

Like everyone said, never underestimate what happens when a defense gets left on the field. Few defenses in the country can be out there as long as ours was and have any success.

We have had this issue for years though. We move the ball only to stall out when it comes time for points. Whether it is a turnover, or a dumb penalty, or a missed field goal. We are a team that has struggled for years to finish drives. The thing is, I haven't seen anything yet this season to show me that this has changed.

As such, I think you will see us move the ball against teams like KSU or TT, but we won't be able to turn that into enough points to win. And as for teams like NU, OU, and UT the game is going to look much like the iowa game where we are so over-matched physically that we can't move the ball much at all.

What I took from the game on Saturday as well as the Thursday before is that we have all of the same weaknesses that we had last year. I don't think we are a better team this year, but I do think that we are playing a tougher schedule. That isn't going to be a good combination for us.