Key Iowa State Stats

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Originally Posted by jbhtexas

We are not remotely close to saying the same thing.

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Yes we are. You are saying penalties for Iowa State hurt them more than other teams. I agree

Question is why? Answer is easy. We have zero offensive production right now. And that is my point. That is the reason for my OP. It shows stats that show our offensive problems are that we can't move the ball.....not penalties!

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Originally Posted by tazclone

How the penalties come about does kill them. Sure they can over come them. They can overcome penalties, but it is harder than overcoming a missed block, a turnover, a dropped ball, or a missed receiver.
A dropped ball, missed receiver, or missed block, cost you a loss of downs. That is it. If you have 1st and 10 and miss a receiver then you have 2nd and 10. A penalty cost you yardage and makes you one dimensional. Example... a hold on first means 1st and 20. you tell me which is easier to pick up 2nd and 10 or 1st and 20?

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Come again? A holding penalty is worse than a turnover? Wow

The main thing that bothers me when people discuss eliminating penalties is they act like it should be an easy fix, and a mental error that can be eliminated. In a few instances here and there it is true, but the vast majority of penalties occur because your opponent is better than you and forces you to have to cheat to compensate. I wish people would address that more than just throwing stats out there and thinking things can change easily.

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Originally Posted by Clones85'

Yes we are. You are saying penalties for Iowa State hurt them more than other teams. I agree

Question is why? Answer is easy. We have zero offensive production right now. And that is my point. That is the reason for my OP. It shows stats that show our offensive problems are that we can't move the ball.....not penalties!

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How many drives are stopped by penalties? If a penalty kills a drive and prevents a score, or turns a likely TD into a FG, then it is a problem.

As your GB Packer example shows, penalites are killers no matter how efficient your offense is.

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Originally Posted by Clones85'

Dude you are saying the EXACT same thing I am. You have been this entire post. Don't you realize it?

We, as fans, recognize penalties because our offense is so bad that they hurt us more than most. But that doesn't mean penalties are our biggest problem. Every other part of our offense has to get better before we can complain about penalties. 93 passing yards against UNI! 93! That has nothing to do with penalties. That has to change. That is all I am getting at. Penalties at this point are the least of our worries. Figuring out how to use the talent we have to be productive on the field is the biggest of our worries

Last night the Green Bay Packers lost because of penalties. They racked up yardage and didn't score because of penalties.

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BUT we are getting into the red zone/scoring positon. That isn't a big problem. It could be better but it isn't bad. Once we get there we fail to score TDs mor times than not and most of the time, that is affected by penalties. I don't have the time to look at other team's penalties but I think you will notice that most teams have issues overcoming penalties in the red zone. It is a compressed field and it is harder to pick up large chunks of yards.

You look at penalties as a whole. I have always argued penalties in scoring position. If you are at the 35 and have 2nd and 20 or 3rd and 20, the defense really ony needs to defend the pass, and only about 10-15 yards of the field. vs 1st and 10 they have to defend evry part of the field.

If I were ranking offensive issues that prevent us from scoring (when in scoring position) I would rank them as follows. One and two are really close.

1. WR separation or lack thereof- If a WR can get 2-3 yards separation the QB doesn't have to be as accurate or force things. If they don't get separation, they get tackled immediately. Lack of separation happens almost every play.
2. QB accuracy/decision making- While this is an issue, it happens less than lack of separation.
3. Penalties- Penalties make us one dimensional and take away the run game. They force our QB into making throws he cannot make and force us to pass to receivers that can't get separation.
4. RB decisions- Holes are there but ARob has been hesitant until the UNI game. In scoring position, the running game is obsolete when we are penalized.
5. OL- We have created enough holes and pass protection to make plays but we have not been consistent. This falls before penalties because we need to block longer if we have to pick up more yardage.

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Originally Posted by ISUFan22

The problem is combining the two. A suspect offense and the penalties. This offense does not have the ability to overcome penalties. That much is virtually a proven fact at this point. When the offense gets penalized - it almost always leads to the drive ending.

I hate our offense right now. It's beyond horribly pathetic.

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No, they aren't. And the OP didn't include the context for the penalties. Every trip to the red zone involves an OL penalty to take us right out of there, and then the whole drive collapses. It's horrible to watch the mental self-destruction.

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Originally Posted by Ficklone02

The main thing that bothers me when people discuss eliminating penalties is they act like it should be an easy fix, and a mental error that can be eliminated. In a few instances here and there it is true, but the vast majority of penalties occur because your opponent is better than you and forces you to have to cheat to compensate. I wish people would address that more than just throwing stats out there and thinking things can change easily.

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Against UNI, ISU had 2 illegal procedure penalites, 1 false start penalty, 2 defensive offsides penalties, 2 holding penalties (one declined), 1 pass interference, and 1 illegal block on a punt.

Illegal procedure, false start, and defensive offsides are mental/discipline issues. Holding, pass interference and illegal blocking could be lack-of-athleticism issues, or they could be mental/discipline lapses.

By my count, 5 penalties (the majority) were due to mental lapses.

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Originally Posted by jbhtexas

How many drives are stopped by penalties? If a penalty kills a drive a prevents a score, or turns a likely TD into a FG, then it is a problem.

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For ISU? More than for other teams. Like I said, penalties are a problem. But not as big of a problem as not moving the ball....at all

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Originally Posted by tazclone

BUT we are getting into the red zone/scoring positon. That isn't a big problem.

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No we are not! It is a huge problem! 12 times in 4 games is terrible!! That is 3 times a game. Even if we score a TD every time (which is impossible) that is still only 21 ppg of offense. That is roughly were we are now thanks to the defense. That is bad bad bad

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Originally Posted by Ficklone02

The main thing that bothers me when people discuss eliminating penalties is they act like it should be an easy fix, and a mental error that can be eliminated. In a few instances here and there it is true, but the vast majority of penalties occur because your opponent is better than you and forces you to have to cheat to compensate. I wish people would address that more than just throwing stats out there and thinking things can change easily.

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KO is ranked as a top 5 OT draft pick. KO has 5 penalties in the red zone this year. All five of those have led to FGs.

KO did not have those issues last year. Those penalties are mental on KO and are correctable. IF KO does not have a single penalty inthe red zone we go from 5 red zone penalties to 2. One of those two was a false start and we scored a TD. The other was OPI.

Of our 7 penalties, 6 were mental. The OPI on Darks was a BS call where the DB created contact and was then knocked into another DB.

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Originally Posted by jbhtexas

Against UNI, ISU had 2 illegal procedure penalites, 1 false start penalty, 2 defensive offsides penalties, 2 holding penalties (one declined), 1 pass interference, and 1 illegal block on a punt.

Illegal procedure, false start, and defensive offsides are mental/discipline issues. Holding, pass interference and illegal blocking could be lack-of-athleticism issues, or they could be mental/discipline lapses.

By my count, 5 penalties (the majority) were due to mental lapses.

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I see offsides and false starts as compensation penalties just as much as mental errors. If the guy across from you is better, it might cause you to try and get a head start on the play.

We're going to see more of the compensation penalties as we play better B12 teams too.

I'd also like to add that not all penalties are bad. Agressive teams get penalized, so I'd be dissappointed if we didn't at least have a few penalties.

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Originally Posted by Clones85'

For ISU? More than for other teams. Like I said, penalties are a problem. But not as big of a problem as not moving the ball....at all



No we are not! It is a huge problem! 12 times in 4 games is terrible!! That is 3 times a game. Even if we score a TD every time (which is impossible) that is still only 21 ppg of offense. That is roughly were we are now thanks to the defense. That is bad bad bad

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12 times is red zone only but we have been in scoring position 18 times. 4 times we have had plays that took us to the red zone but the plays were called back by penalties. Erase those penalties and you have 16 trips to the red zone. Oops...penalties don't matter.

9 (fourof which are ASU, Troy, Tulsa, and C Mich) teams have reached the red zone 20+ times. Everyone else has reached it 19 or less. 12 is not great but it isn't horrible especially considering one game we played the #1 ranked defense. And yes, right now iowa is ranked #1 in total yards. Keep in mind we would have 16 trips to the red zone if plays weren't erased by penalties. 16 is better than average.

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Originally Posted by Ficklone02

I'd also like to add that not all penalties are bad. Agressive teams get penalized, so I'd be dissappointed if we didn't at least have a few penalties.

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I would say most of those penalties fall on the defensive side. the only aggressive penalties we have had on offense are OPI and those are because our WRs blocked to soon on completed passes. That is a mental/timing error that can and should be corrected

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Originally Posted by Ficklone02

I see offsides and false starts as compensation penalties just as much as mental errors. If the guy across from you is better, it might cause you to try and get a head start on the play.

We're going to see more of the compensation penalties as we play better B12 teams too.

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I will go right back to KO. name one player that has lined up across from KO and was better than KO?
Burris' false starts Hicks tripping...none of those have stalled drives or prevented scoring. Mostly because they are 5 yard penalties or have been declined.

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Originally Posted by tazclone

I would say most of those penalties fall on the defensive side. the only aggressive penalties we have had on offense are OPI and those are because our WRs blocked to soon on completed passes. That is a mental/timing error that can and should be corrected

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LOL, how did I know someone would try to come back with this. My comment is not geared towards analyzing our situation in detail, its a general statement.