Colorado Recruiting

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Originally Posted by ISU2010

I think it'd be hard to commit to a lame-duck coach like Hawkins and knowing that the program will be down for several years once it joins the Pac12 and has to shift its recruiting focus from Texas to California. Colorado should have luck recruiting California kids once they replace Hawkins and move to the Pac-12. Colorado's success in the late '80's & early 90's was built off of getting quality California recruits when USC & UCLA were down. They had success with Texas recruits in the early years of the Big12 until the resurgence of UT & OU under Brown & Stoops, respectively.

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CU has always used California as it's primary recruiting ground. Moving to the Pac 10 (12) should help them big time pulling in better kids from Cali.

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Originally Posted by drlove

CU's recruiting base is in California not Texas. Currently there are over 20 guys from CA and 5 from Texas, so no shift is necessry. Even in the Big 12 title year, there were more players from CA than TX.

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This.

I'm not sure football recruits care how beautiful the campus is but I do know a lot of football players come from warm weather climates and they care about the temperature. I've always felt that is a disadvantage for the North schools. Nebraska gets away with it because of their stadium, fans, and trophies, but they even can't seem to recruit at the rate the other warmer football schools do.

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Originally Posted by ISU2010

Apples to oranges: The Colorado QB commit with all the offers is from the state of Colorado, and the Buffs, despite their recent struggles, are still the premier program in that state. The state of Iowa produces less 3-star & 4-star recruits than the state of Colorado, and the best in-state recruits will chose Iowa over ISU 8/10 times. Until Iowa State wins consistently, this isn't going to change. I proudly believe that we have the head coach in place with the best chance of changing this, but it will take time.

As for out of state recruits we need to get to Ames - the high 3-star and 4-star ones that some posters think we should be getting this year - how are we going to lure them to ISU over another BCS school? We have a wonderful head coach, but he's never been a head coach before, so he doesn't have the big name reputation yet, and he's in year 1.5 of the program. We have one winning season in the last four. We have never been in the Big12 championship game, never won a conference title in football. We have not went to a January bowl game in decades. We're in Iowa, far away from the pipeline talent states, and the BCS-schools that surround us, Nebraska & Iowa, are more prestigious football programs with recent conference championships and dozens of former players in the NFL. What's the selling point to get higher rated recruits to Iowa State? Playing time? A beautiful campus? Not much else to sell them on right now other than their bond with the coaches.

Baylor gets 4-star players because they're in Texas. Texas Tech gets 4-star players because they're in Texas. It's not their coaching staff's great recruiting skills or their program's prestige that get them more talented players than ISU. It's geography, recruits being closer to family & friends and more familiarity with the school and program. How you going to sell a 4-star prospect from Texas to go to school in Ames, IA over Waco or Lubbock, TX, when the Iowa State program hasn't been any more successful than those in-state program have?

Right now we're recruiting to improve our athleticism and team speed primarily on the defensive side of the ball. Since we aren't going to get the highly athletic developed 4-star recruits, we're going after less heralded 2-star type rawer athletes with better size & speed over higher ranked yet more physically limited 3-star types. Our head coach has went on record just a couple weeks ago lamenting our team's lack of speed. Our coaching staff feels like they need better athletes above all else and is confident in its ability to develop such players. Look at our defensive coaching staff's track record at other programs before you complain about whether they can pull this off. Then recognize that the program in Iowa City was rebuilt using the same approach. Recruit athletes and your kind of players, and as the wins come, the star rating of your classes will rise as you're able to get a more developed athlete to commit to your program.

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How does SMU, UTEP, Rice, North Texas, do with the 4 star Texas kids? They have geography advantages. Bottom line is the efforts made by the respective staffs do make a difference in the recruiting. Building pipelines to Texas schools do make a difference, and the relationships built by the coaching staff, and the program developement is key. Playing time is a big attraction as well.

I am happy with the way recruiting for ISU has gone so far. In the past ISU would have 3 or 4 guys committed by now, and maybe 12 by January. Then in Feb there would be 12 to 15 guys that the staff would fill in with, usually with JC guys or plan C, or D players. Sure CPR would like to sign 23 5 star guys and 5 4 stars, but ISU is not Texas, and it will never be Texas. The coaching staff has targetted guys early that they know can help, and that they think they have a great chance to hold on to through signing day.

A lot of what determines how good a team is in football is the coaching and player development. Do you think that TT had a worse class than ISU in the past 10 years? I doubt it, if so maybe once. Look at Iowa. Sure they have had better classes than ISU for the last 10 years, but not a lot better. Certainly not in the top 10 or 15 classes, yet they have been pretty darn good. Do you think the CPR and KF go out and check the stars on a player before they decide to recruit them?

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Originally Posted by trajanJ

I'm not sure football recruits care how beautiful the campus is but I do know a lot of football players come from warm weather climates and they care about the temperature. I've always felt that is a disadvantage for the North schools. Nebraska gets away with it because of their stadium, fans, and trophies, but they even can't seem to recruit at the rate the other warmer football schools do.

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You bring up an interesting point. I got to hear College Football Hall of Famer, Alfred Williams speak last week in Colorado. Ironically, he is from Houston, he said that one of the factors that decided where he would go to school was 'weather". Alfred mentioned that he didn't want to be hot. My guess is that he is more the exception than the rule. To each his own.

When I was in school at KU I know the Texas players were always complaining about winter and thought Lawrence was too cold.

Star rating and weather might have something to do with it................explain Boise State then?

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Originally Posted by tricehill

Star rating and weather might have something to do with it................explain Boise State then?

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1) Low academic standards. BSU takes athletes that can't get into other schools
2) Track record of success. BCS bowls and a history of winning attract better athletes to your program, due in no small part to...
3) Weak conference schedule. The BSU model is to schedule 2-3 strong out of conference opponents to gain national credibility, and then blow through the ridiculously easy WAC schedule

None of this is meant to take away from BSU's success, I'm glad they, along with TCU, Utah etc are getting their shot. But I don't think their model will work for ISU.

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Originally Posted by sdillon500

1) Low academic standards. BSU takes athletes that can't get into other schools
2) Track record of success. BCS bowls and a history of winning attract better athletes to your program, due in no small part to...
3) Weak conference schedule. The BSU model is to schedule 2-3 strong out of conference opponents to gain national credibility, and then blow through the ridiculously easy WAC schedule

None of this is meant to take away from BSU's success, I'm glad they, along with TCU, Utah etc are getting their shot. But I don't think their model will work for ISU.

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They don't give stars out for your grade point average or SAT score. They still aren't attracting star rated talent from their track record. They still beat every BCS school they play.

Boise State is very interesting. They have a lot of speed. Their lineman are bada**es. Yet, they never get any 4 star recruits, they're classes are similar to ours. My guess is the coaches play up their chip on the shoulder. They are fairly close to a recruiting hot bed in California, and are getting some players from Texas. They might be proof that you can find a diamonds in the rough every year.

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Originally Posted by Yes13

Boise State is very interesting. They have a lot of speed. Their lineman are bada**es. Yet, they never get any 4 star recruits, they're classes are similar to ours. My guess is the coaches play up their chip on the shoulder. They are fairly close to a recruiting hot bed in California, and are getting some players from Texas. They might be proof that you can find a diamonds in the rough every year.

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Most of their players aren't 4 star recruits because they don't have major offers. And they don't have major offers because of grades. Look at James Carpenter, who Chizik signed out of HS. He was a 2 star player. After two years at a JUCO, he was a 4 star player who signed with Alabama. You can't tell me that Carpenter wasn't a 4 or 5 star talent out of HS, he just didn't have the grades to pull those major offers. Basically, Boise St. is taking a bunch of kids like Carpenter (except from California) and getting them into school.

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Originally Posted by drlove

CU's recruiting base is in California not Texas. Currently there are over 20 guys from CA and 5 from Texas, so no shift is necessry. Even in the Big 12 title year, there were more players from CA than TX.

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I stand corrected. California has remained Colorado's recruiting base since the McCartney era, although the quality of California recruit that they are getting now surely isn't as high as it was in the '90's when they were beating out USC and UCLA for 4-and 5-star players. Early this decade Barnett made a strong push into Texas recruiting and the number of Texans pulled near even with Californians for a few years (2002-2004), but I didn't realize just how dramatically Texas recruiting had fallen off under Hawkins.


2000 10 Texans and 27 Californians
2001 11 Texans and 23 Californians
2002 19 Texans and 22 Californians
2003 22 Texans and 22 Californians
2004 19 Texans and 20 Californians
2005 16 Texans and 27 Californians
2006 13 Texans and 27 Californians
2007 8 Texans and 28 Californians
2008 5 Texans and 32 Californians
2009 6 Texans and 26 Californians

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Originally Posted by CyCloned

I am happy with the way recruiting for ISU has gone so far. In the past ISU would have 3 or 4 guys committed by now, and maybe 12 by January. Then in Feb there would be 12 to 15 guys that the staff would fill in with, usually with JC guys or plan C, or D players. Sure CPR would like to sign 23 5 star guys and 5 4 stars, but ISU is not Texas, and it will never be Texas. The coaching staff has targetted guys early that they know can help, and that they think they have a great chance to hold on to through signing day.

A lot of what determines how good a team is in football is the coaching and player development. Do you think that TT had a worse class than ISU in the past 10 years? I doubt it, if so maybe once. Look at Iowa. Sure they have had better classes than ISU for the last 10 years, but not a lot better. Certainly not in the top 10 or 15 classes, yet they have been pretty darn good. Do you think the CPR and KF go out and check the stars on a player before they decide to recruit them?

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I agree completely. Our coaches do a great job recruiting considering the disadvantages that they have compared to other schools. I have been so annoyed at posters complaining about the lack of 3- and 4-star recruits in Rhoads first class, expecting him to work miracles in recruiting after only 1.5 years on the job. Iowa State has some major disadvantages in recruiting compared to most of the Big12, so it will take time to start beating out other Big12 schools for recruits again. Be thankful that Rhoads has shown that he can win games against good opponents despite our lack of talent, depth, and "his" players.

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Originally Posted by clonestar12

How does SMU, UTEP, Rice, North Texas, do with the 4 star Texas kids? They have geography advantages. Bottom line is the efforts made by the respective staffs do make a difference in the recruiting. Building pipelines to Texas schools do make a difference, and the relationships built by the coaching staff, and the program developement is key. Playing time is a big attraction as well.

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Neither SMU, UTEP, Rice, or North Texas sign 4-star Texas kids.
SMU recruiting under June Jones has improved to where it gets a majority of 3-star kids. UTEP, North Texas and Rice sign mostly 2-star players. We can beat out these schools for 3-star recruits from Texas, so certainly geography isn't everything. However compared to other Big12 schools, ISU football has as yet no major advantages in recruiting and geography is a huge disadvantage. Playing time is attractive, but a 4-star recruit will have playing time opportunities at Baylor and Texas Tech too. Improving our recruiting success in Texas will come as our coaches make more contacts and as our program starts winning consistently. But it's ridiculous for posters to expect us to be signing 4-star kids from Texas this year, with a first-time head coach with only 1.5 years in the job and took over a program with three straight losing seasons.

In the early part of the 2000's, TCU was signing mostly 2-star Texas kids like the other non-BCS conference Texas schools. They showed that they could win with mostly 2-star kids, then as they kept winning they improved recruiting to sign mostly 3-star players, and now that they've been to BCS games the last few years, they sign 2-4 4-star kids per class. Winning drives recruiting success more than recruiting success drives winning.