Colorado Recruiting

I realize CU will be out of our conference after this season, but their recruiting class is like Iowa State's used to be at this point in the year.

People can say all they want about Iowa State's class and the lack of offers our commits have, but I wouldn't trade our class in a heartbeat for Colorado's.

Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com 2011 Colorado Commitments

They have 3 commits. Those may be "Plan-A" recruits for them, but it's time for them to say hello to the Plan B, C, and D recruits at this point. :realmad:

Does Hawkins have any more sons to recruit?

Let's just send them off with a beat down this year...

I think it'd be hard to commit to a lame-duck coach like Hawkins and knowing that the program will be down for several years once it joins the Pac12 and has to shift its recruiting focus from Texas to California. Colorado should have luck recruiting California kids once they replace Hawkins and move to the Pac-12. Colorado's success in the late '80's & early 90's was built off of getting quality California recruits when USC & UCLA were down. They had success with Texas recruits in the early years of the Big12 until the resurgence of UT & OU under Brown & Stoops, respectively.

Just to play devil's advocate here:

CU's top commit, who plays the most important position on the football field, has more offers from legit schools than all of ISU's 13 commits combined.

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Originally Posted by kucyclone

Just to play devil's advocate here:

CU's top commit, who plays the most important position on the football field, has more offers from legit schools than all of ISU's 13 commits combined.

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Exactly. Our recruiting isn't all that good. Even Baylor has 4-star recruits. And before you jump on that "stars don't mean squat!" argument, Colorado for a long time ignored the recruiting ratings, and it's obvious where they are now. Compare our recruiting class to Texas Tech's, for example. Even with a coaching change, it is obvious their program is a notch or two above ours.

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Originally Posted by kucyclone

Just to play devil's advocate here:

CU's top commit, who plays the most important position on the football field, has more offers from legit schools than all of ISU's 13 commits combined.

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Yeah, we should probably hold our scholarships, and go for five or six home runs. Because that's what will win ballgames. :jimlad:

Our recruiting is similar to Chizm and Dan. However, we have recruits earlier in the season. Looks like we are still having to pull diamonds out of the rough.

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Originally Posted by Cyclone42

Exactly. Our recruiting isn't all that good. Even Baylor has 4-star recruits. And before you jump on that "stars don't mean squat!" argument, Colorado for a long time ignored the recruiting ratings, and it's obvious where they are now. Compare our recruiting class to Texas Tech's, for example. Even with a coaching change, it is obvious their program is a notch or two above ours.

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This is why Texas, Okie and Nebby were so awesome last week. They forgot the stars for the heart.

Apples to oranges: The Colorado QB commit with all the offers is from the state of Colorado, and the Buffs, despite their recent struggles, are still the premier program in that state. The state of Iowa produces less 3-star & 4-star recruits than the state of Colorado, and the best in-state recruits will chose Iowa over ISU 8/10 times. Until Iowa State wins consistently, this isn't going to change. I proudly believe that we have the head coach in place with the best chance of changing this, but it will take time.

As for out of state recruits we need to get to Ames - the high 3-star and 4-star ones that some posters think we should be getting this year - how are we going to lure them to ISU over another BCS school? We have a wonderful head coach, but he's never been a head coach before, so he doesn't have the big name reputation yet, and he's in year 1.5 of the program. We have one winning season in the last four. We have never been in the Big12 championship game, never won a conference title in football. We have not went to a January bowl game in decades. We're in Iowa, far away from the pipeline talent states, and the BCS-schools that surround us, Nebraska & Iowa, are more prestigious football programs with recent conference championships and dozens of former players in the NFL. What's the selling point to get higher rated recruits to Iowa State? Playing time? A beautiful campus? Not much else to sell them on right now other than their bond with the coaches.

Baylor gets 4-star players because they're in Texas. Texas Tech gets 4-star players because they're in Texas. It's not their coaching staff's great recruiting skills or their program's prestige that get them more talented players than ISU. It's geography, recruits being closer to family & friends and more familiarity with the school and program. How you going to sell a 4-star prospect from Texas to go to school in Ames, IA over Waco or Lubbock, TX, when the Iowa State program hasn't been any more successful than those in-state program have?

Right now we're recruiting to improve our athleticism and team speed primarily on the defensive side of the ball. Since we aren't going to get the highly athletic developed 4-star recruits, we're going after less heralded 2-star type rawer athletes with better size & speed over higher ranked yet more physically limited 3-star types. Our head coach has went on record just a couple weeks ago lamenting our team's lack of speed. Our coaching staff feels like they need better athletes above all else and is confident in its ability to develop such players. Look at our defensive coaching staff's track record at other programs before you complain about whether they can pull this off. Then recognize that the program in Iowa City was rebuilt using the same approach. Recruit athletes and your kind of players, and as the wins come, the star rating of your classes will rise as you're able to get a more developed athlete to commit to your program.

Things to sell to top recruits (or any recruit):
Early playing time in the Big 12 conference as a ticket to the NFL, a great staff, solid and supportive academics, beautiful campus, being part of a turnaround, a chance to be a local hero, a good college town... and, ignoring a few fans on CF, a positive, family environment.

Most do not make life decisions based on a singular attribute.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHouston

Things to sell to top recruits (or any recruit):
Early playing time in the Big 12 conference as a ticket to the NFL, a great staff, solid and supportive academics, beautiful campus, being part of a turnaround, a chance to be a local hero, a good college town... and, ignoring a few fans on CF, a positive, family environment.

Most do not make life decisions based on a singular attribute.

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I agree that ISU has all those positive attributes and they can be used to attract recruits. The discussion is about competing with other Big12 schools for higher rated recruits, so which of these are significantly better than the other Big12 schools?

• Early playing time - Yes.
• Ticket to the NFL - No. Since the Big12 was formed 15 years ago, only Baylor has produced fewer NFL draft picks than Iowa State.
• Great staff - Yes/No. Our coaches has solid coordinator experience at some great programs, but they are not well known outside of Iowa. This is CPR's first head coaching job, and he's relatively unknown in the states with the most football talent. Every other Big12 head coach has more head coaching experience than CPR.
• solid and supportive academics - Slight. ISU is one of the best in the Big12 for academics, but not significantly better than any of the others. It's not like we're an elite private university (Stanford, Notre Dame, etc.) or a Tier1 public university like Virginia, Maryland, UCLA, Cal-Berkeley, etc.
• beautiful campus - yes, one of the most beautiful in the country.
• being part of a turnaround - maybe. more appealing than being part of a program mired in losing, but much less appealing than being part of an established winner.
• a chance to be a local hero - no. All Big12 schools produce local heroes.
• a good college town - maybe. Several other Big12 schools in nice college towns, but Ames should have more appeal than Lubbock or Waco.
• positive, family environment - maybe. again, a trend in most college towns.

As I wrote before, Iowa State has two attributes that it can sell to recruits that are significantly better than most other Big12 schools: 1) Playing time and 2) a beautiful campus in a nice college town. The other programs have many more advantages over Iowa State than just two.

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Originally Posted by ISU2010

Apples to oranges: The Colorado QB commit with all the offers is from the state of Colorado, and the Buffs, despite their recent struggles, are still the premier program in that state. The state of Iowa produces less 3-star & 4-star recruits than the state of Colorado, and the best in-state recruits will chose Iowa over ISU 8/10 times. Until Iowa State wins consistently, this isn't going to change. I proudly believe that we have the head coach in place with the best chance of changing this, but it will take time.

As for out of state recruits we need to get to Ames - the high 3-star and 4-star ones that some posters think we should be getting this year - how are we going to lure them to ISU over another BCS school? We have a wonderful head coach, but he's never been a head coach before, so he doesn't have the big name reputation yet, and he's in year 1.5 of the program. We have one winning season in the last four. We have never been in the Big12 championship game, never won a conference title in football. We have not went to a January bowl game in decades. We're in Iowa, far away from the pipeline talent states, and the BCS-schools that surround us, Nebraska & Iowa, are more prestigious football programs with recent conference championships and dozens of former players in the NFL. What's the selling point to get higher rated recruits to Iowa State? Playing time? A beautiful campus? Not much else to sell them on right now other than their bond with the coaches.

Baylor gets 4-star players because they're in Texas. Texas Tech gets 4-star players because they're in Texas. It's not their coaching staff's great recruiting skills or their program's prestige that get them more talented players than ISU. It's geography, recruits being closer to family & friends and more familiarity with the school and program. How you going to sell a 4-star prospect from Texas to go to school in Ames, IA over Waco or Lubbock, TX, when the Iowa State program hasn't been any more successful than those in-state program have?

Right now we're recruiting to improve our athleticism and team speed primarily on the defensive side of the ball. Since we aren't going to get the highly athletic developed 4-star recruits, we're going after less heralded 2-star type rawer athletes with better size & speed over higher ranked yet more physically limited 3-star types. Our head coach has went on record just a couple weeks ago lamenting our team's lack of speed. Our coaching staff feels like they need better athletes above all else and is confident in its ability to develop such players. Look at our defensive coaching staff's track record at other programs before you complain about whether they can pull this off. Then recognize that the program in Iowa City was rebuilt using the same approach. Recruit athletes and your kind of players, and as the wins come, the star rating of your classes will rise as you're able to get a more developed athlete to commit to your program.

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This x10.

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Originally Posted by ISU2010

I agree that ISU has all those positive attributes and they can be used to attract recruits. The discussion is about competing with other Big12 schools for higher rated recruits, so which of these are significantly better than the other Big12 schools?

• Early playing time - Yes.
• Ticket to the NFL - No. Since the Big12 was formed 15 years ago, only Baylor has produced fewer NFL draft picks than Iowa State.
• Great staff - Yes/No. Our coaches has solid coordinator experience at some great programs, but they are not well known outside of Iowa. This is CPR's first head coaching job, and he's relatively unknown in the states with the most football talent. Every other Big12 head coach has more head coaching experience than CPR.
• solid and supportive academics - Slight. ISU is one of the best in the Big12 for academics, but not significantly better than any of the others. It's not like we're an elite private university (Stanford, Notre Dame, etc.) or a Tier1 public university like Virginia, Maryland, UCLA, Cal-Berkeley, etc.
• beautiful campus - yes, one of the most beautiful in the country.
• being part of a turnaround - maybe. more appealing than being part of a program mired in losing, but much less appealing than being part of an established winner.
• a chance to be a local hero - no. All Big12 schools produce local heroes.
• a good college town - maybe. Several other Big12 schools in nice college towns, but Ames should have more appeal than Lubbock or Waco.
• positive, family environment - maybe. again, a trend in most college towns.

As I wrote before, Iowa State has two attributes that it can sell to recruits that are significantly better than most other Big12 schools: 1) Playing time and 2) a beautiful campus in a nice college town. The other programs have many more advantages over Iowa State than just two.

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We are a Tier 1 University.

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Originally Posted by ISU2010

I think it'd be hard to commit to a lame-duck coach like Hawkins and knowing that the program will be down for several years once it joins the Pac12 and has to shift its recruiting focus from Texas to California. Colorado should have luck recruiting California kids once they replace Hawkins and move to the Pac-12. Colorado's success in the late '80's & early 90's was built off of getting quality California recruits when USC & UCLA were down. They had success with Texas recruits in the early years of the Big12 until the resurgence of UT & OU under Brown & Stoops, respectively.

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CU's recruiting base is in California not Texas. Currently there are over 20 guys from CA and 5 from Texas, so no shift is necessry. Even in the Big 12 title year, there were more players from CA than TX.