Line play... (long)

[checker21]

What I really noticed watching this game is that are talent level through out the team is very good, good, and bad. There is not much in between. For example, our secondary has three good and very good players - Johnson, Sims, and Benton, but the 4th is very bad. If you notice our bad players always get exposed we can't hide them. Our O-line is the same way. I think if we could just sprinkle in some average players we would be a much better team.

[Rural]

I'd like to reference the early season meeting of North Carolina and LSU to highlight what the guys on our coaching staff are up against.

Remember that NC had 13 guys sitting out/suspended? That included 7 defensive starters and I believe 3 other guys who played some.

I watched that game and what immediately struck me was how NC had great athletes all over the field even minus 13 guys, most of whom were starters. The game came down to a goal-line play away from beating what is now a top ten team in LSU. This is without 10 guys who play a lot. Can you imagine ISU in the same situation? We'd have to forfeit.

Don't just say it's the lines, we need massive talent infusions EVERYWHERE. That's the task for CPR.

[crash_zone]

What does it look like for next year? Don't we have several red-shirt guys on both lines? That indicates to me that the coaches (1) knew it was a problem (2) are trying to address it by building a system that constantly has developed players to start as juniors and seniors (3) being in year #2, we just haven't had a chance to see this yet.

Please, someone tell me this is the case. Please?

[heitclone]

I'd like to reference the early season meeting of North Carolina and LSU to highlight what the guys on our coaching staff are up against.

Remember that NC had 13 guys sitting out/suspended? That included 7 defensive starters and I believe 3 other guys who played some.

I watched that game and what immediately struck me was how NC had great athletes all over the field even minus 13 guys, most of whom were starters. The game came down to a goal-line play away from beating what is now a top ten team in LSU. This is without 10 guys who play a lot. Can you imagine ISU in the same situation? We'd have to forfeit.

Don't just say it's the lines, we need massive talent infusions EVERYWHERE. That's the task for CPR.

You're right, this is the hardest part about a coaching change. Let alone 2 coaching changes in 5 years, finding guys who can fit your system and come in and play are the priority of a new coach and building depth can take 3 or 4 recruiting classes.

[gregniowa]

Until the line play on both sides of the ball improves, our offense will struggle to do anything, and our defense will leak like a sieve.

Our lines have not looked like decent Div 1 lines should look - and it's not all coaching. While we will not likely land top tier recruits, there is much better out there to be had, even at the JuCo level. They are simply outmatched against upper tier players.

Even top tier Div 1 quarterbacks would have great difficulty performing well under the pressure our OL has allowed. That our QB's are not top tier national recruits has been obvious from the day they were recruited until now. In games like the last couple, we have seen them perform poorly under huge points deficit pressure, all while sitting behind a offensive line that provides only a couple of seconds delay to top tier defensive players getting to them. Its more than a "leaky sieve" line analogy, the line is providing little more than what a big rock in a river provides, a slight delay that the water simply goes around.

Both the line recruiting and strength training programs should be seriously focused upon. Reality would dictate that it is unlikely that we will be able to attract the type of offensive talent anytime soon that would be required to outscore the better Big 12 teams on the basis of the caliber of our offensive skill positions alone. We will need to provide time for plays to develop for our offensive skill players against likely (naturally) better athletes and we need a defense that will keep the score low enough to give us a chance of winning on a well-coached strategy basis.

Unfortunately, right now, we have neither the defense or OL to do that consistantly. But we are at a level that we can do well against somewhat lesser teams, assuming we show up with our best on display.

As a side note, in case any members of the team looks at these boards. I want them all to know I, along with many in the fan-base respect them immensely for what they are doing and realize how difficult it is for them to succeed against the teams on this year's schedule. They are, in addition to athetes, full-time students at ISU carrying a load academically, with limited amounts of practice time, from week-to-week. Improving and adjusting to the play sets for next week's top tier ranked team would be challenging for any, but even more so for a team of the level of ISU. They are in a constant mode of seriously playing "up", against both elite teams and elite individual players that are some of the best in the nation. I am sure it is a very hard load to bear at times. Bottom line, our guys have a bigger weight on their shoulders playing up against teams that are at a higher level than the players on the other teams do playing us. But, nevertheless, the men on our team, the Cyclones, have heart, and are continuing to work hard to improve their individual and team skills - and for that, I thank them as a fan. And while sometimes, encountering elite teams like Utah and Oklahoma may cause everything to kind of fall apart on the field, plainly exhibiting that our team still has a lot of areas to improve in, that does not mean we are not improving. Nor does it mean these young men, who we cheer on on Saturdays, are not giving their all.

Believe it or not, many of us can relate to being up against things that seem bigger than we are likely to overcome. In this economy, many of us are challenged financially, some out of work, with mouths to feed. Others have physical challenges, sickness or conditions that we or others in our families are struggling with. Others are struggling with personal issues with those that we love and care about. Life is often filled with challenges that try the hearts of men (and women). So, while seeing our Cyclones, our team, get beat so badly (like with Oklahoma) is saddening, we know how hard it is for these young men to emerge victorious against that caliber of opponent. But seeing these young men show up each week having, on top of their academic load, worked diligently to strengthen and improve themselves so that they can take on the next giant with sling and stones in hand, is personally encouraging.

They show up to try and do what no one thinks they can do, they try and figure out how to win against seemingly unbeatable opponents. Some times they fail in terms of points on the board, even having expended their best efforts, but sometimes they succeed - even gloriously, like with TT. But regardless of their level of victory the previous week, they will work hard to improve and show up the following week to do battle again - to pit their talents, skill, heart and energy against a new set of opponents. And THAT takes heart and cojones, it takes courage - something we can all admire, respect and cheer on. We all want to see them, underdog status and all, do well against the odds - and if some wins can be obtained when the naysayers cry "impossible!" - all the better.

So when we fans talk about our hope that recruiting goes well, its not that we disrespect our present Cyclone players, its just that we want reinforcements to arrive soon, to help them achieve better success in the future. For we know their task is very hard - going up against some of the best in the nation - and they need all the help they can get.

But until recruiting reinforcements arrive and get trained and deployed, I know our Cyclones will dig deeper, work harder and apply their intelligence to try and use what they have to its greatest advantage. And I, as a fan, can ask no more than that.

This week, I hope the wearers of cardinal and gold can go back to the supply closet and open up a fresh can of whoop-* this week so we can succeed at giving Texas a barrel full of problems next weekend. I imagine they think they are going to have it easy - let's surprise them!

[JUKEBOX]

Our lines have not looked like decent Div 1 lines should look - and it's not all coaching. While we will not likely land top tier recruits, there is much better out there to be had, even at the JuCo level. They are simply outmatched against upper tier players.

Even top tier Div 1 quarterbacks would have great difficulty performing well under the pressure our OL has allowed. That our QB's are not top tier national recruits has been obvious from the day they were recruited until now. In games like the last couple, we have seen them perform poorly under huge points deficit pressure, all while sitting behind a offensive line that provides only a couple of seconds delay to top tier defensive players getting to them. Its more than a "leaky sieve" line analogy, the line is providing little more than what a big rock in a river provides, a slight delay that the water simply goes around.

Both the line recruiting and strength training programs should be seriously focused upon. Reality would dictate that it is unlikely that we will be able to attract the type of offensive talent anytime soon that would be required to outscore the better Big 12 teams on the basis of the caliber of our offensive skill positions alone. We will need to provide time for plays to develop for our offensive skill players against likely (naturally) better athletes and we need a defense that will keep the score low enough to give us a chance of winning on a well-coached strategy basis.

Unfortunately, right now, we have neither the defense or OL to do that consistantly. But we are at a level that we can do well against somewhat lesser teams, assuming we show up with our best on display.

As a side note, in case any members of the team looks at these boards. I want them all to know I, along with many in the fan-base respect them immensely for what they are doing and realize how difficult it is for them to succeed against the teams on this year's schedule. They are, in addition to athetes, full-time students at ISU carrying a load academically, with limited amounts of practice time, from week-to-week. Improving and adjusting to the play sets for next week's top tier ranked team would be challenging for any, but even more so for a team of the level of ISU. They are in a constant mode of seriously playing "up", against both elite teams and elite individual players that are some of the best in the nation. I am sure it is a very hard load to bear at times. Bottom line, our guys have a bigger weight on their shoulders playing up against teams that are at a higher level than the players on the other teams do playing us. But, nevertheless, the men on our team, the Cyclones, have heart, and are continuing to work hard to improve their individual and team skills - and for that, I thank them as a fan. And while sometimes, encountering elite teams like Utah and Oklahoma may cause everything to kind of fall apart on the field, plainly exhibiting that our team still has a lot of areas to improve in, that does not mean we are not improving. Nor does it mean these young men, who we cheer on on Saturdays, are not giving their all.

Believe it or not, many of us can relate to being up against things that seem bigger than we are likely to overcome. In this economy, many of us are challenged financially, some out of work, with mouths to feed. Others have physical challenges, sickness or conditions that we or others in our families are struggling with. Others are struggling with personal issues with those that we love and care about. Life is often filled with challenges that try the hearts of men (and women). So, while seeing our Cyclones, our team, get beat so badly (like with Oklahoma) is saddening, we know how hard it is for these young men to emerge victorious against that caliber of opponent. But seeing these young men show up each week having, on top of their academic load, worked diligently to strengthen and improve themselves so that they can take on the next giant with sling and stones in hand, is personally encouraging.

They show up to try and do what no one thinks they can do, they try and figure out how to win against seemingly unbeatable opponents. Some times they fail in terms of points on the board, even having expended their best efforts, but sometimes they succeed - even gloriously, like with TT. But regardless of their level of victory the previous week, they will work hard to improve and show up the following week to do battle again - to pit their talents, skill, heart and energy against a new set of opponents. And THAT takes heart and cojones, it takes courage - something we can all admire, respect and cheer on. We all want to see them, underdog status and all, do well against the odds - and if some wins can be obtained when the naysayers cry "impossible!" - all the better.

So when we fans talk about our hope that recruiting goes well, its not that we disrespect our present Cyclone players, its just that we want reinforcements to arrive soon, to help them achieve better success in the future. For we know their task is very hard - going up against some of the best in the nation - and they need all the help they can get.

But until recruiting reinforcements arrive and get trained and deployed, I know our Cyclones will dig deeper, work harder and apply their intelligence to try and use what they have to its greatest advantage. And I, as a fan, can ask no more than that.

This week, I hope the wearers of cardinal and gold can go back to the supply closet and open up a fresh can of whoop-* this week so we can succeed at giving Texas a barrel full of problems next weekend. I imagine they think they are going to have it easy - let's surprise them!

That's a lot of writing.

[Peter]

It's obvious that Scott Haughton left a huge hole on the line. I think we also miss Reggie Stephens. Between those two guys we lost two NFL caliber players and replaced them with Burris and Hicks who don't seem to be ready for the Big XII.

Defensively, all it takes is a look at the size chart to figure out what is wrong. When your D-ends are 6 foot 230 lbs, you are going to get manhandled. I don't care how big a motor these guys have. You will still get crushed. We don't have a legit Big XII DE on the roster right now...or DT's for that matter. It's going to take a while before our lines are good enough to even compete with top 10 teams.

[clonedude]

What it all boils down to is this.... football always has been and always will be a game of strength and leverage. You can put all these fancy new no huddle, 100% shotgun, hurry up offenses in all you want to, but if you don't block well... and you can't stop the run on defense or pressure the QB... you will not win games. I don't care how much lipstick you put on the pig you call ISU's offense... it's still a butt ugly pig that stinks.

[Tornado man]

It's obvious that Scott Haughton left a huge hole on the line. I think we also miss Reggie Stephens. Between those two guys we lost two NFL caliber players and replaced them with Burris and Hicks who don't seem to be ready for the Big XII.

Funny how Mac's last recruiting years were crap, according to the experts on this board, yet we're talking about "missing" Stephens (a Mac recruit), and even our very own CW tabbed Ben Lemaak (another Mac recruit), as "mid-season offensive MVP." We obviously miss Frere and Alburtis on the DL - both Mac players.

It tells me recruiting has actually tailed off since Mac left...

[dualthreat]

i saw nate frere the other day. he does not resemble any sort of athlete. Im sure he looked better when he played, but jeesh. Its sad to think that those are the players that we are trying to win with.

Im not questioning their heart, or their effort or dedication. Just the fact that they're body type is comparable to an overweight beer drinking uncle.

[weR138]

Funny how Mac's last recruiting years were crap, according to the experts on this board, yet we're talking about "missing" Stephens (a Mac recruit), and even our very own CW tabbed Ben Lemaak (another Mac recruit), as "mid-season offensive MVP." We obviously miss Frere and Alburtis on the DL - both Mac players.

It tells me recruiting has actually tailed off since Mac left...

Name one. Mac is gone because of coaching and no one has said otherwise.

[snowcraig2.0]

The big problem is that we knew the defensive line would be bad, but the offensive line being bad has been quite the unpleasant surprise.

[ajk4st8]

We lost 2 of our top 3 linemen on Offense last year. We knew we would be bad.

We havent had a Dline since Dan McCarney.

This is almost a 'we landed on the moon' thread.

Add bad lines to inaccruate QBs, a really poor WR group... and you wont throw for much.

[Wesley]

Great post, both lines are the most important parts of a football team and until that improves at ISU they are going nowhere. Need to hire special recruiter to concentrate on this area.

Barney Cotton or John Blake?

[ISUAlum2002]

One thing I've noticed on offense is that our line needs all the help it can get to try to keep the QB upright when he is in the pocket. What this means is that the RB/FB/TE's can't get out in the flats to be a check down if our receivers aren't getting separation (another big issue). They're having to stay at the line of scrimmage to block.

While watching decent college and pro offenses, you can see that the running backs usually have time to just chip block a defender and the roll out to the flats so the QB can drop the ball off to them. Since we can't seem to do this with much success, our QB is stuck having to try to make throws that aren't there, or he has to run for his life/take sacks. This all goes back to line play.