QB competition. Whats your Opinion?

[Rhoadhoused]

Kerry Meier did it just fine.

Why people think Tiller will be a good receiver:
1) decent speed/quickness
2) good size
3) seems to be elusive in the open field/good overall athleticism
4) extremely positive track record of QBs becoming WRs, including here @ ISU. They know the offense extremely well, and run great routes because they know what a QB wants out of his receivers from that standpoint.

Again, agree to disagree. I don't think Tiller is nearly elusive enough in the open field, fast enough, or has enough acceleration to make a real difference in our offense. He has decent speed/quickness for a QB, not a WR. We have players with his WR skills already.

This isn't like Denard Robinson at Michigan, it isn't even like if Jarvis West was a QB(completely random example). A guy like that brings elite elusiveness and speed.

Plenty of our receivers have the things you pointed out about Tiller, except Tiller can push your starting QB and provide excellent depth and a safety net for your team. (in this scenario, I'm assuming Jantz wins the job or we don't talk about position changes, and I don't think a Junior will really take a freshman like Barnett as seriously as he takes a Jr like Tiller)

[Al_4_State]

Again, agree to disagree. I don't think Tiller is nearly elusive enough in the open field, fast enough, or has enough acceleration to make a real difference in our offense. He has decent speed/quickness for a QB, not a WR. We have players with his WR skills already.

This isn't like Denard Robinson at Michigan, it isn't even like if Jarvis West was a QB(completely random example). A guy like that brings elite elusiveness and speed.

Plenty of our receivers have the things you pointed out about Tiller, except Tiller can push your starting QB and provide excellent depth and a safety net for your team. (in this scenario, I'm assuming Jantz wins the job or we don't talk about position changes, and I don't think a Junior will really take a freshman like Barnett as seriously as he takes a Jr like Tiller)

I see Tiller as similar in athletic ability to guys like Austin Flynn or Kerry Meier.

Our receivers, save Lenz, run awful routes and are terrible getting separation from defensive backs. They're almost always draped in opposing defenders. A lot of times, converted QBs seem to be smarter receivers who find ways to shed coverage and really be a "QB's receiver". Now, I'll admit that I think Tiller can make the switch based almost solely on others doing it successfully, but IF he loses the starting job, he's being wasted on the bench. He can always be our #2 QB and #1 WR. It's not like he's going to forget the offense at this point.

It's at least worth looking into if he doesn't win the starting QB slot.

[FootballinTexas]

Again, agree to disagree. I don't think Tiller is nearly elusive enough in the open field, fast enough, or has enough acceleration to make a real difference in our offense. He has decent speed/quickness for a QB, not a WR. We have players with his WR skills already.

This isn't like Denard Robinson at Michigan, it isn't even like if Jarvis West was a QB(completely random example). A guy like that brings elite elusiveness and speed.

Plenty of our receivers have the things you pointed out about Tiller, except Tiller can push your starting QB and provide excellent depth and a safety net for your team. (in this scenario, I'm assuming Jantz wins the job or we don't talk about position changes, and I don't think a Junior will really take a freshman like Barnett as seriously as he takes a Jr like Tiller)

I disagree with your first statement. Tiller has the speed and quickness. He may even play faster at WR than he would at QB because he would have less to process and could just play fast.

On your last point.......Really? This is the Big 12. Every player better take another player seriously. Remember, Barnett was a D1 recruit. Jantz didn't even sniff a D1 offer out of high school. For the fact of the matter, even after his great season at CCSF last year, he didn't get much of a sniff. So, he better be taking these guys seriously....including Sam (eventhough he should redshirt). The head coach said it's a competition man. Or have you already forgotten that part.

[FootballinTexas]

I see Tiller as similar in athletic ability to guys like Austin Flynn or Kerry Meier.

Our receivers, save Lenz, run awful routes and are terrible getting separation from defensive backs. They're almost always draped in opposing defenders. A lot of times, converted QBs seem to be smarter receivers who find ways to shed coverage and really be a "QB's receiver". Now, I'll admit that I think Tiller can make the switch based almost solely on others doing it successfully, but IF he loses the starting job, he's being wasted on the bench. He can always be our #2 QB and #1 WR. It's not like he's going to forget the offense at this point.

It's at least worth looking into if he doesn't win the starting QB slot.

I totally agree. Because of the requirements of the position, they have more of a feel for the entire field. A lot of schools will recruit QB's just to convert them to other positions if they have the athletic ability to play them because of their complete knowledge of the playing field. Tiller can switch easily IF he has too. That's a big IF.

[Rhoadhoused]

I disagree with your first statement. Tiller has the speed and quickness. He may even play faster at WR than he would at QB because he would have less to process and could just play fast.

On your last point.......Really? This is the Big 12. Every player better take another player seriously. Remember, Barnett was a D1 recruit. Jantz didn't even sniff a D1 offer out of high school. For the fact of the matter, even after his great season at CCSF last year, he didn't get much of a sniff. So, he better be taking these guys seriously....including Sam (eventhough he should redshirt). The head coach said it's a competition man. Or have you already forgotten that part.

Human nature man. I was talking about Tiller taking Barnett seriously. Tiller was obviously set up at the end of last year as the kind of "heir apparent". At least I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he thought that. I don't think any Junior QB in his position who has started and won games in the Big 12 would really think a coach would just allow a freshman to jump over him, regardless of what a coach publicly says.

[Al_4_State]

I totally agree. Because of the requirements of the position, they have more of a feel for the entire field. A lot of schools will recruit QB's just to convert them to other positions if they have the athletic ability to play them because of their complete knowledge of the playing field. Tiller can switch easily IF he has too. That's a big IF.

I think any of the 3 could switch if need be. And honestly, looking at the odds, at least one (if not two) of these guys will never be "the" man at ISU. All three are athletic guys with decent size for WR.

[FootballinTexas]

Human nature man. I was talking about Tiller taking Barnett seriously. Tiller was obviously set up at the end of last year as the kind of "heir apparent". At least I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he thought that. I don't think any Junior QB in his position who has started and won games in the Big 12 would really think a coach would just allow a freshman to jump over him, regardless of what a coach publicly says.

Obviously there was a misunderstanding in your statement. You stated, "I don't think a Junior will really take a freshman like Barnett as seriously as he takes a Jr like Tiller". This statement looks like you you are referring to Jantz not taking Barnett as seriously as he would Tiller.

[FootballinTexas]

I think any of the 3 could switch if need be. And honestly, looking at the odds, at least one (if not two) of these guys will never be "the" man at ISU. All three are athletic guys with decent size for WR.

I agree that any of the three could switch. However, I disagree with your second point. It's difficult to solidify that statement when not one of your QB's is proven in the D1 climate. Now, if that's your opinion, I'm ok with it. But, the landscape could change several times over the course of next season with all 3 of the current competitors being "the man" at some some point.

[Rhoadhoused]

Obviously there was a misunderstanding in your statement. You stated, "I don't think a Junior will really take a freshman like Barnett as seriously as he takes a Jr like Tiller". This statement looks like you you are referring to Jantz not taking Barnett as seriously as he would Tiller.

Ok wait never mind, I forgot the context of that post. I meant that if you are assuming that Jantz wins (and this goes the same for if Tiller wins) I don't think you move either one to WR because a Junior will take another Junior more seriously as competition. And I guess that probably holds more true for if Tiller wins since he has the experience on the team.

And I think that is part of the reason the staff brought Jantz in in the first place.

[FootballinTexas]

Oh ok my bad. I meant that sentence to end with Jantz and not Tiller.

I will say, from my own observations and from conversations I had with other people close to the team, that Barnett was actually playing better than both Tiller and Capello before his injury last fall. And, I think confirmation of that comes from the fact that he travelled with the team for four games as a redshirt. From my playing and coaching experience, that's not normal except for gaining experience. I'm not syaing Barnett's gonna be the guy. So, everyone don't jump my ***. I'm saying that "it will be interesting" this fall.

[FootballinTexas]

Ok wait never mind, I forgot the context of that post. I meant that if you are assuming that Jantz wins (and this goes the same for if Tiller wins) I don't think you move either one to WR because a Junior will take another Junior more seriously as competition. And I guess that probably holds more true for if Tiller wins since he has the experience on the team.

And I think that is part of the reason the staff brought Jantz in in the first place.

What if Tiller/Jantz wins and Barnett is the clear #2? I would have to think there would be cause for both to continue to work hard. Now, if Barnett's the clear #3 and one of the other juniors plays wideout as a second position, then YES, I agree with you.

[Rhoadhoused]

I will say, from my own observations and from conversations I had with other people close to the team, that Barnett was actually playing better than both Tiller and Capello before his injury last fall. And, I think confirmation of that comes from the fact that he travelled with the team for four games as a redshirt. From my playing and coaching experience, that's not normal except for gaining experience. I'm not syaing Barnett's gonna be the guy. So, everyone don't jump my ***. I'm saying that "it will be interesting" this fall.

That is really good to hear for Barnett's sake, not so much for Tiller. As last season ended I was desperately hoping that Barnett would beat Tiller out next fall because I really want a pass first QB who can make plays with his arm first and legs second. Now that Jantz has come into the picture I find myself hoping that he can fill that role, but if he can't I would be more than happy to have Barnett take the spot. And if Tiller improves his passing, I would welcome him as well. I think that is the stance most people are taking. Just as long as the guy who wins the job is an improvement over the past I think everyone is fine with it.

[Al_4_State]

I agree that any of the three could switch. However, I disagree with your second point. It's difficult to solidify that statement when not one of your QB's is proven in the D1 climate. Now, if that's your opinion, I'm ok with it. But, the landscape could change several times over the course of next season with all 3 of the current competitors being "the man" at some some point.

By "the man" I mean the guy that clearly wins the job and is the team's leader at QB. Obviously injury can change all of that, and you might end up with a Tom Brady overtaking Drew Bledose type situation, but I think that it just isn't likely. Someone is going to be #1 before the UNI game. If it's Tiller or Jantz, its unlikely that the loser of that battle will ever be the preferred #1. If it's Barnett , then you have 2 guys (Tiller and Jantz) that will probably never be the preferred starter. Now, while Barnett is certainly not out in the future if it's Tiller or Jantz now, he'll have to contend w/Richardson down the road, and while I think Barnett will have his year(s), you never know there either.

[Al_4_State]

What if Tiller/Jantz wins and Barnett is the clear #2? I would have to think there would be cause for both to continue to work hard. Now, if Barnett's the clear #3 and one of the other juniors plays wideout as a second position, then YES, I agree with you.

If Barnett is clear #2, we're crazy not to move the losing junior to WR.

[FootballinTexas]

That is really good to hear for Barnett's sake, not so much for Tiller. As last season ended I was desperately hoping that Barnett would beat Tiller out next fall because I really want a pass first QB who can make plays with his arm first and legs second. Now that Jantz has come into the picture I find myself hoping that he can fill that role, but if he can't I would be more than happy to have Barnett take the spot. And if Tiller improves his passing, I would welcome him as well. I think that is the stance most people are taking. Just as long as the guy who wins the job is an improvement over the past I think everyone is fine with it.

ASbsolutely. Everyone want's the best guy. Right now, we just don't know who that is or will be. Even the coaches are unsure right now. So my point here is, let's pull for all 3 guys. Let's hope Tiller has improved his passing, Jantz is everything people think he is, and Barnett is the young athletic gunslinger with the ability to lead. That way, whoever wins, noone will be disappointed and the Cyclones will be a better team in 2011.