QB competition. Whats your Opinion?

[Rhoadhoused]

I can't believe we have gotten this far into the argument without someone citing actual statistics about AA. Ya he had a huge drop off in yards each year, but he also had a huge drop off in pass attempts as well. And while his numbers like YPA and QB rating dropped a little each year, his yards only dropped so dramatically because his attempts dropped dramatically. He had 100 more attempts his SO year than his junior and senior years. He also missed two games last year. Just something to think about.

Another thing, our defense was absolutely terrible his SO year so our offense got a lot more possessions and was passing from behind a lot more.

Austen Arnaud Stats, News, Videos, Pictures, Bio - Iowa State Cyclones - ESPN

[RedBlooded]

Also... Steele Jantz and Jared Barnett are "Herman's guys". So if Tiller wins the job this year, what does that say about Herman's QB's?

Tiller has been pretty ineffective in his chances at QB. If one of Herman's recruits can't beat him out, what does that say?

If Tiller starts this year, it will sure say a lot about Herman's ability to recruit too.

Greg McDermott is a good basketball coach at the Missouri Valley level, but not in the big leagues. Could the same possibly be true of Herman?

I applauded the hiring of Tom Herman, and obvisously he is a very intelligent guy, but this "system" of his has not only not produced any results, but is just painful to watch. I sure hope he can turn it around. I really do.

I want what is best for ISU football. And as I've said, Herman deserves another couple years to show something because it's still too early. But this offense has not progressed from year one to year two under him. It hasn't even stayed the same.... it's gotten worse.

Maybe Steele Jantz will be the savior of our offensive woes? I personally think that is a LOT to expect of an incoming JUCO QB. In year 3 under Herman, shouldn't we have had a couple of young stud QB's fighting it out to be the starter by now? Where are they? Instead, we had to go out and grab a JUCO kid that nobody else really showed much interest in... and he's supposed to save the offense? I hope he does, but it's a lot to stake your job on IMO.

Lets not forget even the offensive numbers were not good enough for us then. Remember before Chizik left he fired both the O coordinator and D coordinator. We were on the decline no matter what.
ISU football coach makes changes on coaching staff - College Football - ESPN

Also our rushing game has improved. I might be wrong but the new offense helps make holes for the running backs. I also think that big 12 defenses have improved. so maybe AA was a good QB, but he might have been better off in a lower league. But the point of this thread was to point out that we are better off at this point now then at this point last year.

[jaretac]

Well first lets take a look at the stats.

In 2010 AA threw for 1700 yards and completed 59.0%. He threw 13 TDs and 10 interceptions. His longest pass was 37 yards. His 2010 record was 4 and 6 excluding northern iowa where he only threw one pass for 6 yards.

Which brings me to my next point. Some people that Ive talk to think that Tiller, Jantz, and Barnett won't be an improvement over Arnaud. While I respect their loyalty, I personally find it hard to believe that a three way competition will not produce a guy better than AA.

Coach Messingham seems to be set pretty high on Jantz, so I'm gonna go with Steele as our 2011 starter.

Thats my opinion.

Boy this takes me back. "There is no way that AA couldn't be better" It happens all the time. I've decided some years ago that I'm not going to buy into hype. Believe it or not things can get worse. We didn't think they could after 2006 and they did. We thought the sky was the limit with Chizik, sky can't be seen in hell. I will wait to see what this season brings. I think we are capable of 7 or 8 win season if Jantz or Tiller adapts well, but we can easily be 4 wins if we can't find a guy.

[rebecacy]

But Chizik was the best coach in ISU history, right?

Two years isn't enough time to judge any coach.

[snowcraig2.0]

Two years isn't enough time to judge any coach.

I think Chizik could have done some good things at ISU. But, he made a disastrous choice as far as coordinators go, and he had realized that before he left.

Bottom line, I don't have a problem with Chiz as a coach, and I don't even really have a problem with the way he left. What I have a problem with is that he took what was at the time the 3rd highest budget for assistants in the Big 12 and went out and hired his fishing buddies, instead of getting quality coordinators.

Heck, he might have been able to get Gus M to ISU at that time.

[Tre4ISU]

In McFarland's final year, we threw for 2,981 yds and averaged 386.8 yds of total offense per game.

In Herman's first year, we threw for 2,401 yds and averaged 364.7 yds of total offense per game.

That's not such a big difference, but there was a small drop off, mostly due to a new system, etc.

My problem is what happened from Herman's first year to his second year.

Herman's second year we threw for 2,091 yds (drop off of over 300 yds), and averaged 317.4 yds of total offense per game (a drop off of nearly 50 yds per game).

This offense under Herman has done nothing but get worse since he's been here. But we've won more games under Herman's reign, but I credit that with much improved defense mostly.

AA threw for over 400 yds in a game against UNLV in his sophomore season under McFarland. AA had the capability to be a pretty prolific passer here in his final two seasons IMO. AA's passing yds went from 2,981 yds under McFarland to 2,091 in Herman's system last year. 900 yds less of passing.

I would not put this all on AA. AA had a really good sophomore season, but did nothing but get worse in his last two seasons. I do think we ran the ball better these last two years, but still... total offense has still gone down every year since McFarland left.

If you don't think Tom Herman deserves some criticism, then I don't know how you are supposed to judge him? By wins only? That has a LOT to do with defense and turnovers created I'm afraid. Our offense has stunk so far under Herman. There's no other way to look at it IMO. It's not only bad, it's painful to even watch.

BUT, I'm willing to cut him some slack. He's only been here two years and he deserves another year or two to show something. But for those who argue that AA just didn't fit Herman's system, that is not AA's fault. Rhoads knew when he got here that AA was most likely going to be our QB for two years. AA had just come off a really good sophomore season. So why did we go and get an OC that didn't fit what AA could do, or that couldn't adjust his offense to fit the QB's abilities?

I feel for AA. I truly believe that Tom Herman made him a worse QB these last two years. AA would have been better off transferring to a better system, but he's too good of a guy to do that to the Cyclones.

I just wonder how many QB's we'll need to go through before we find one that fits Herman's amazing "system"?

Most of this is actually pretty good and pretty fair but you don't hire a QB for two years. You hire one for the long run. Also, our offense flat out won us two games last year. Our defense did not beat Texas and Texas Tech. They almost cost us a huge lead against Texas and they couldn't stop Tech. I wouldn't say the defense won us any games either. UNI was awful and that was just kind of a boring game where the defense did what they needed to do but I wouldn't say they were the only reason we won. Same with Kansas. Those were both teams we should have dominated.

[besserheimerphat]

Our defense was NOT good last year. Maybe a little better than expected, but still in the bottom 20% of BCS teams. The defense was as tough to watch as the offense a lot of times. We were a bend-bend-bend-bend-break defense that got a few turnovers. Opposing offenses ran more plays against us, which limited the amount of plays we could run (aka opportunities to gain yards and score). We were not consistently good anywere last year, with the possible exception of LB.

[jaretac]

Hmmm... AA isn't a QB huh? Interesting. Strange how a guy that's "not a QB" can throw for over 400 yds in a game as a sophomore, and for nearly 3,000 yds total that season?

I wish we had more "non-QB's" like AA was as a sophomore playing QB for us. Do you think Steele Jantz, Jerome Tiller, or Jared Barnett will throw for 3,000 yds this year?

Seriously, AA is a QB, and could have been a good one too. But he had to suffer through two years of playing in a system that was completely wrong for him, because Tom Herman was either too stubborn to change his system to fit the qualities of his QB.... OR.... he was too stupid to do so? Which is it?

I actually agree with this. I remember reading one time about how Gary Pinkel has adjusted his offenses throughout the years to match the QB. This is something that hasn't really happened here on offense.

[RustShack]

Are people forgetting the season we had in 2008? We lost every single game in conference and got absolutely drubbed most of the time. Of course AA accumulated more yards. ISU was constantly throwing trying to get back in the games.

Further when you are down 28+ points like we constantly were with Chizik, the other team can take out their starters, backups, and put in the water boys. So AA would rack up meaningless stats against the third stringers while they played a soft prevent defense.

Now I know last year we got whacked by OU and Utah but I'll take Herman and CPR's offense and winning over winning 5 games in two years but throwing for 300 more freaking yards a year. Wake up people.

Don't use logic. People here lack common sense. It's all about the stats!!1!11!

[Tre4ISU]

I actually agree with this. I remember reading one time about how Gary Pinkel has adjusted his offenses throughout the years to match the QB. This is something that hasn't really happened here on offense.

Gary Pinkels success has come from two QBs who are in the NFL and one of them could be the best in last years draft class. Arnaud was not that. That's not even considering he had two receivers who were among the best in the nation. Also not what we have.

[RustShack]

I actually agree with this. I remember reading one time about how Gary Pinkel has adjusted his offenses throughout the years to match the QB. This is something that hasn't really happened here on offense.

Interesting. I remember reading Chase Daniel got the job because he was from a spread offense so he got the nod over the more talented guy who was more suited for a Pro Style.

[tazclone]

D Up Cyclone you are an idiot if you think you know 1/10 as much as Tom Herman does. How ******* smart do you think you are that you can fix the offense from your god damn armchair? He has obviously looked into it because it is his job and his paychecks depend on it. You are not that smart. Having an opinion is one thing but dear god.

I tend to agree with D Up. We run a ton of slants and hooks and rarely run deep routes. People claim Arnaud couldn't throw deep but he did just fine prior to Herman. What I do disagree is Arnaud had a horrible time with the intermediate routs. The 12-117 yard pass. He had a hard time getting the right touch on those passes. Yet, that is a lot of what we ran. Especially when playing iowa.
BTW- I am really tired of hearing how smart Herman is until he proves it on the field. I have yet to see him outsmart an defensive coach but I have seen him get owned by more than one DC. Until he has success on the field, he is just an OC that has something to prove. I do love the excuse makers though. Wait until the players learn the system. He doesn't have his guys. Rhoads is holding him back. Arnaud sucks...blah, blah blah.

[tazclone]

I think most of the criticism of Herman has been very warranted. There's absolutely NO reason whatsoever for us to have the 100th best offense out of 119 teams.... none. Seriously, what does Herman even point to in his review to show that he's been worth his paycheck?

Obviously it's still early, but he MUST start showing something. I'm sure we could find an OC for half the price that could get us ranked around 100th in the country.

I'm not going to say I'm an expert and know what he should be doing, that's his job. But he needs to start moving the ball and putting up points somehow.

I don't look at the deep ball as much of a risk at all. Very rarely do they get intercepted, and when they do, it's almost just like a punt anyway... they are never returned all the way for a TD. You can't call what we run a "spread" if we never spread the field vertically. Just my thoughts.

Very well said Clonedude. Very well said

[tazclone]

Another theory is that his big numbers at Rice were built on the backs of one very good QB and one great receiver.

Two great receivers that are both playing on Sundays. With that kind of talent, one should put up great numbers against Conference USA opponents

[tazclone]

The Tech game showed me this offense has what it takes if ran effectively.

They don't need to (really can't) produce like that game all the time, however a little consistency would be nice.

Ah yes, one game against a team with a bad defense in the middle of a transition with a new coach. That is a great indicator of an offenses success