MESS named OC

[jbhtexas]

1. Not sure how many games you watch, but I've seen more short passes to wide open guys just be completely missed, and that has nothing to do with scheme.

I've seen those too, but this is anecdotal. I've also seen a number of missed passes thrown to a receiver in traffic. Those passes were defended, or the QB had to try and pinpoint the throw around a couple of defenders and missed.

No doubt the recievers need to improve, but the scheme also needs to create more space and make easier plays for the QB and receivers. Not every school has an Andrew Luck who can make NFL-caliber throws to well-covered receivers.

[RustShack]

As far as Herman, why would you run an offense (passing game) predicated on beating people in congested space with the least athletic offense?

Really beating a dead horse on this one. CPR hired Herman because he wanted a god damn spread offense. He decided it was best for the future of ISU to take our lumps while we were already a bad team and transition to an offense he thought would be best for the future. He thought it was best for the new guys he recruited to just learn one offense, instead of learning a scheme they aren't fit for then when they are the upperclassemen having to learn a whole new one again. The type of players we have been recruiting are about the opposite of the type we had been bringing in before CPR got here.

[RustShack]

Quit basing your opinion of this offense on players recruited for a completely different offense. Wait until players who were recruited for and fit this offense are the ones running it.

[brett108]

Quit basing your opinion of this offense on players recruited for a completely different offense. Wait until players who were recruited for and fit this offense are the ones running it.

In the defense of the posters, I am pretty sure every type of system wants their receivers to be able to catch the ball.

[RustShack]

In the defense of the posters, I am pretty sure every type of system wants their receivers to be able to catch the ball.

The accuracy and catching isn't what I was talking about Lol, as they would have the same problem in any scheme. But it will be interesting to see this offense run without the two guys dropping it the most. Hopefully Barnett or Jantz will have improved accuracy their second year starting which isn't at all unheard of.

[cyhiphopp]

Quit basing your opinion of this offense on players recruited for a completely different offense. Wait until players who were recruited for and fit this offense are the ones running it.

Solid point.
However, no single factor is going to make this offense really good. It is going to be a combination of a LOT of different aspects.

The scheme needs to be solidified and absorbed by the players. Both JB and Jantz were first year starters and neither of them executed the offense consistently. One could argue (and many have on this board) that Barnett executed the offense much better which I think shows what having that extra year in the system can do. It goes beyond the QBs as well. We played multiple new starters at RB with ARob gone. Continuity should help the entire teams grasp of the offense.

Then you have to look at the players on offense. We have had some pretty solid recruiting classes accross the board the last two years (and the transition year was pretty decent as well) with this years shaping up to be solid as well. A lot of 3 star talent coming in that should develop nicely. Many of our young guys from CPRs first few classes are already playing a lot. That is generally a sign of good things to come. We have had the luxury of being able to redshirt a lot of our recent recruits which will help even more down the line.

The final key, and what I think will be most important, is execution. Once we have the right players for our style of offense and players that know the offense better, they then have to execute. We had some decent drives and offensive production at times this year, but we weren't consistent. We would drive 40 yards by controlling the line of scrimmage and making good passes and receptions, but then the drive would stall out because of a missed block in the run game, an innacurate pass by one of our inexperienced QBs, or a drop by one of our receivers. Top that off with the inability to consistently make field goals and you have a lot of wasted drives.

In the next few years we should have players recruited specifically for this offense that have played for multiple years. We will also have a well established scheme and our players should be able to execute without having to think about it so much.



Combine that with a defense that has proven to be pretty stout when the offense does their job and we have a pretty bright future ahead of us.


So, in my opinion it is not JUST scheme or JUST the players running it. It's a little bit of everything.

[dualthreat]

It IS a little bit of everything. That's a big reason a part of me is staying optimistic about losing our OC.

I think our scheme was pretty decent. Herman wasn't the greatest, but he did a fair job.
Next season, our talent level will be higher again. I think that can be a good reason to believe our O won't take a step laterally.

[besserheimerphat]

No doubt the recievers need to improve, but the scheme also needs to create more space and make easier plays for the QB and receivers.

What kind of scheme creates more space for the receivers? Isn't it the receiver's job to create his own space by running crisp routes and being fast, quick and physical?

It's not like we go into football games and the other team doesn't know what we're going to try and do. We need to be better at making week-to-week adjustments but that is irrelevant of scheme. That is gameplan. If we changed our scheme this evening, it might catch people off guard for half a season. But again, those other coaches watch game film too and they know that they can modify their defenses to take away what we want to do. Then what, change scheme again?

Scheme is most important in the NFL, where the is the smallest talent differential between the top and bottom teams. As you go down in level, the importance of scheme decreases and the importance of talent increases. You can go undefeated easily in junior high with one great player by giving him the ball and letting him run over and around people. In high school, it might take 3+ great players and the other team might have a couple great players too so you have to start thinking about "run inside" or "run outside" or "don't throw against that corner." In college, you need even more talent and your opponent has more talent. The gameplan has to account by taking more detailed information into consideration (how good is their pass rush, how good is their coverage, can our wideout beat their corner deep, can their linebackers run with our runningback on the perimeter, etc), but you fit this into your scheme, regardless of what your scheme is.

Upgrade execution and talent, run any scheme that fits within the rules, create a solid gameplan, win ball games.

[scyclonekid]

Sexy just gets you into trouble aka cheese****

[megamanxzero35]

Scheme is most important in the NFL, where the is the smallest talent differential between the top and bottom teams.

Very much agree. That is why we just saw Green Bay's backup QB break all sorts of Packers single game passing records because of the scheme and system they run.


As to your first question about what kinda scheme creating space for receivers, I think the biggest part is recognizing what the defense is doing and what plays you are calling to take advantage of that. You try and run plays that create confusion and leave a guy open for a pass.

I would consider that play we ran in the first OT against OSU where White ran that delayed wheel route out of the backfield where the rest of our WRs were on the other side of the field a scheme play.

[besserheimerphat]

If you are interested in Dana Holgerson's AirRaid, the Pistol Formation or the Diamond Formation, I suggest you check out this site: Dana Holgorsen’s West Virginia “Airraid” offense | Smart Football

It's got a bunch of links discussing the in's and out's of the different formations and schemes. It's actual "technical" football info - instead of saying "you get better angles" it tells you where the angles are and why they are there and why that is different than other formations.

[wright4cy]

So what would you think of Austin Flynn as wr coach? He is back in Iowa coaching ,after coaching in texas at a school ? Don't beat me up I did not read all 22 pages of this thread ..Just curious Now that Mess is OC.If Austin would be a good fit ? Loved him as a Cyclone and Glad he is coaching .

[AlleyAddict]

So what would you think of Austin Flynn as wr coach? He is back in Iowa coaching ,after coaching in texas at a school ? Don't beat me up I did not read all 22 pages of this thread ..Just curious Now that Mess is OC.If Austin would be a good fit ? Loved him as a Cyclone and Glad he is coaching .

[jbhtexas]

What kind of scheme creates more space for the receivers? Isn't it the receiver's job to create his own space by running crisp routes and being fast, quick and physical?

One that doesn't have all of the receivers running routes within 10 yds of the LOS (which is what ISU did with regularity for the past three years). It is unrealistic to expect receivers to create space when they (and their defenders) are all jammed into a tight space.

It's not like we go into football games and the other team doesn't know what we're going to try and do.

Correct. The opposing defense knows that ISU rarely runs deep routes, so they cheat their defenders up to clog up the routes that ISU does run and inhibit the running game.

We need to be better at making week-to-week adjustments but that is irrelevant of scheme.

Of course one has to make week-to-week adjustments. But ISU needs to run a scheme that doesn't compress the field vertically. Making minor adjustments to a fundamentally flawed scheme is futile.

Upgrade execution and talent, run any scheme that fits within the rules, create a solid gameplan, win ball games.

The only way ISU's present practice running mostly short routes will ever be successful is if the QB talent is on the level and Andrew Luck (to make pinpoint passes) and the talent of all receivers is on the level of Justin Blackmon (who can simply "out-physical" defenders in tight space). I don't know of any successful spread offenses that don't regularly run deep routes (not only run them, but actually pass to the receivers running the deep routes).

[Cycsk]

Some of the players on twitter seemed real jacked about it.

That's great. Which players?