Williams Blog: Reacting to Phil Steele's All Big 12 Teams

**aeroclone** · 05-23-2012, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisMWilliams

Exactly. I have no clue who the starter will be.

I love Jantz as an athlete and his ceiling is probably a little bit higher than JB's. However, I love JB as a leader and think that the guys really played hard for him last season. It's a toss-up.

I see this posted all over this site, and I guess I just don't get it. People constantly throw out that Jantz has a higher ceiling than Barnett, but what the heck is that worth when you are comparing a senior to a sophomore? If they were both underclassmen then I could see that being more relevant, but by the time you are in your final season things like potential and ceiling just don't mean much because you are out of time to develop. I don't think that little extra ceiling (if it is even true) is more valuable than an entire season of experience for Barnett, who could still grow and develop for a couple more years after this season.

**mcblogerson** · 05-23-2012, 04:37 PM

Jaques Washington is our most underappreciated player. IMO he's our 3rd best player behind Knott and Klein.

**Cincyclone** · 05-23-2012, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by mcblogerson

Jaques Washington is our most underappreciated player. IMO he's our 3rd best defensive player behind Knott and Klein.

**KFitzy87** · 05-23-2012, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by aeroclone

I see this posted all over this site, and I guess I just don't get it. People constantly throw out that Jantz has a higher ceiling than Barnett, but what the heck is that worth when you are comparing a senior to a sophomore? If they were both underclassmen then I could see that being more relevant, but by the time you are in your final season things like potential and ceiling just don't mean much because you are out of time to develop. I don't think that little extra ceiling (if it is even true) is more valuable than an entire season of experience for Barnett, who could still grow and develop for a couple more years after this season.

He doesn't mean ceiling in the terms of development... He means it in terms of having higher highs... Playmaking ability.... Having the "it" factor

**ca4cy** · 05-23-2012, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by aeroclone

I see this posted all over this site, and I guess I just don't get it. People constantly throw out that Jantz has a higher ceiling than Barnett, but what the heck is that worth when you are comparing a senior to a sophomore? If they were both underclassmen then I could see that being more relevant, but by the time you are in your final season things like potential and ceiling just don't mean much because you are out of time to develop. I don't think that little extra ceiling (if it is even true) is more valuable than an entire season of experience for Barnett, who could still grow and develop for a couple more years after this season.

I understand what you're saying, but we're not playing for "next year" anymore. I don't think we can give somebody time to develop for their last 2 years if they're not giving us the best chance to win now. CPR expects to contend for bowl every year and that being the case, you put the best man in at every position regardless of age. If they're even, then yes, give the nod to Barnett. If the coaching staff feels that Steele gives us the best chance to win now, then you've gotta go with him.

**RustShack** · 05-23-2012, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by aeroclone

I see this posted all over this site, and I guess I just don't get it. People constantly throw out that Jantz has a higher ceiling than Barnett, but what the heck is that worth when you are comparing a senior to a sophomore? If they were both underclassmen then I could see that being more relevant, but by the time you are in your final season things like potential and ceiling just don't mean much because you are out of time to develop. I don't think that little extra ceiling (if it is even true) is more valuable than an entire season of experience for Barnett, who could still grow and develop for a couple more years after this season.

Jantz is far more talented and can make huge plays that Barnett can only dream of. That's why he has a higher ceiling. Jantz was more raw at the QB position last year than Barnett even though he is older. Barnett knew the offense better too on top of that as he has been here longer than Jantz. Jantz had his year to get a grasp of the playbook, the speed of the game at this level, and his teammates. Hes had more time to develop as a QB and improve on his mechanics which is often what leads to INT's. That experience you speak of is just as important to Jantz as it is to Barnett, actually its probably more important to Jantz since Barnett is the one who looked like he was more experienced at the position.

They were about even last year in different ways, Jantz just has a lot more room to grow and improve.

**Rhoadhoused** · 05-23-2012, 05:16 PM

[quote=FootballinTexas;2869374]

Originally Posted by JustRedman

Pretty sure he means that Barnett, if the starting QB, will not be in the mix for All-Big XII. However, if Jantz is the starting QB he will have more impressive plays/stats and be considered more in the All-Big XII talk.
Personally, I think Jantz is our starter. I feel like he could really make us good if he has gotten the TO problem under control. He is capable of some INCREDIBLE plays!!! Barnett is very solid and has plenty of time to get better. IMO, Jantz will give us more 3-play 75 yard drives than Barnett can. Big play potential will make safeties and LBs play the run looser. IMO, Barnett will not stretch the D the way Jantz can. Jantz can scramble also, and if the LBs and Safeties are dropped in coverage he may have a very productive rushing year. I have full confidence in Barnett if Jantz were not the starter but I believe Jantz is the better QB.[/QUOTE

In case you missed it...2011 Football All-Big 12 Awards Announced - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

With only 3 starts.

That says honorable mention Freshman of the Year. Not honorable mention QB.

Also Barnett got 5 starts..... or am I missing something?

**FootballinTexas** · 05-23-2012, 05:43 PM

[quote=Rhoadhoused;2869477]

Originally Posted by FootballinTexas

That says honorable mention Freshman of the Year. Not honorable mention QB.

Also Barnett got 5 starts..... or am I missing something?

Correct, he did get 5 starts. Was HM FoY as a WR, OL, DB? I understand that's a blanket but he plays QB. Was Horne NCoY for his play at some position other than WR?

**cyatheart** · 05-23-2012, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

Jake McD was a stud by the end of the year last year. Did a great job of getting in and getting pressure. He didn't make a lot of tackles but he blew up some plays.

This. Jake should be first team if anything, he is certainly not too high at 2nd team. Guy is a monster.

**Rhoadhoused** · 05-23-2012, 05:49 PM

[quote=FootballinTexas;2869514]

Originally Posted by Rhoadhoused

Correct, he did get 5 starts. Was HM FoY as a WR, OL, DB? I understand that's a blanket but he plays QB. Was Horne NCoY for his play at some position other than WR?

My point is that he only had to beat freshmen out for it. The guy who won was a WR with 18 catches for like 270 yards and 3 TDs. I'm not even presenting my opinion, those are just facts.

**Ficklone02** · 05-23-2012, 06:14 PM

I think the game just moves to fast mentally for Steele & if he's the starter I don't see the turnover problem going away. To me JB actually has a higher ceiling because he seems to actually have the ability to hit the receiver as he's becoming open, rather than after he's been open. I think thats more important than having the strongest arm between the two qb's.

**FootballinTexas** · 05-23-2012, 06:34 PM

IA.

Originally Posted by RustShack

Jantz is far more talented and can make huge plays that Barnett can only dream of. That's why he has a higher ceiling. Jantz was more raw at the QB position last year than Barnett even though he is older. Barnett knew the offense better too on top of that as he has been here longer than Jantz. Jantz had his year to get a grasp of the playbook, the speed of the game at this level, and his teammates. Hes had more time to develop as a QB and improve on his mechanics which is often what leads to INT's. That experience you speak of is just as important to Jantz as it is to Barnett, actually its probably more important to Jantz since Barnett is the one who looked like he was more experienced at the position.

They were about even last year in different ways, Jantz just has a lot more room to grow and improve.

So, with all of that said...why has CPR not named a QB. More potential, better upside, higher ceiling, big play ability that some QB's can only dream of, improved grasp of the playbook and mechanics, cannon arm, faster, etc. Sounds like the second coming of RGIII. Why wait any longer. This one's a no brainer. JB should just transfer, right. Maybe go to a small FCS school or NAIA. Big 12 is out of his league.

**FootballinTexas** · 05-23-2012, 06:36 PM

[quote=Rhoadhoused;2869518]

Originally Posted by FootballinTexas

My point is that he only had to beat freshmen out for it. The guy who won was a WR with 18 catches for like 270 yards and 3 TDs. I'm not even presenting my opinion, those are just facts.

I agree. That freshman was also on a team with a 10-3 record.

**Hiltonmagk** · 05-23-2012, 06:39 PM

Honestly I think JB gives us a better chance at winning this year if anything close to last years SJ shows up. Let's face it we need to sustain drives to rest our defense if we are going to have a good chance to win a lot of the games we are going to play next year. Sure our first team is pretty good and can compete with the rest of the Big 12, we've proved that, but it's our depth that kills us. Our defense gets tired when we have all the three and outs and turnovers that SJ was giving us. JB came in and sustained drives and gave our defense time to stay fresh. That is what won us a lot of games last year. I'll concede that when SJ is playing really well, he's playing better than JB is capable of playing, but how often do we get that from SJ? With a steady QB we could be pretty good this year but if we have problems sustaining drives I'm not sure we can go anywhere. At least as far as a bowl game goes.

PS...I'd love for SJ to prove me wrong

**FootballinTexas** · 05-23-2012, 07:04 PM

Someone earlier in this thread said JB doesnt have the tools, ability, or stats to be talked about in the All Big 12 conversation but Steele does. Looking back at the conference stats, JB missed the top 10 in rushing by 6 yards (437) to Macolm Brown (443). He also played 1 less game than Brown. Only 1 QB average more ypc than JB's 4.2 and that was Franklin 4.5. Klein had 346 more yards but he also had 117 more carries and 3 more starts. The TD's are lopsided but how many of those were outside of he 5 yard line. We have Woody for those.

JB was 7th in the conference in passing at 168 ypg and 1178 passing yards. Klein was 8th at 156 ypg and 1410 total passing yards. TD's and INT's were 6/6 for JB and 8/4 for Klein.

Klein was 7th in total offense (244 ypg) and JB was 8th with (230 ypg). A difference of 14 ypg. My point is if Klein is 3rd team, with the numbers and averages JB had he could have been in a better position stat wise than Klein with a full Big 12 season.

Before Im blasted by our own fanbase for talking up one of our players, let me just say this is "reasonable" analysis based on facts. Not based on "ifs" .....just had JB played the same number of games and stayed on his averages.

2011 Conference Only Football Statistics - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site