Two things......

**Bobby45** · 10-01-2012, 06:08 AM

Here's hoping that the Grate Courtney can get us in the endzone this sat at TCU. LOL

**cayin** · 10-01-2012, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by mikem

Wow....Nice

Do you really think that Courtney Messingham is a Tom Herman disciple?

They had never worked together before Iowa State.

If you can't really understand that the players that have been recruited on the offensive side of the ball were brought in to play the system of a coach that is no longer here, then I can't help you.

Fact is that Mess has a pretty varied and extensive resume. I am fairly certain that it is safe to say that he has developed his own philosophy in the time that he has coached. He is still finding his way at the biggest job he has ever had. He has definitely had a couple of bad games. But remember the decision to promote him was made by the HEAD coach.

If you want to criticize him for doing a poor job adjusting to the players that have been recruited here, then that is fine. If you want to criticize his play calling, that is also fine.

But the selective memory used to castigate a guy who has played all of 18 games as a college QB, and a coach that has had one Spring and one Fall camp to install his playbook with personel that he didn't recruit (other than the TE's and WR's of course) because we have to lash out because we played a terrible game on the offensive side of the ball is ridiculous.

The sad part is that it was fairly obvious that this was going to happen on here. The same people that sat here pumping the sunshine of how great we were going to be, are the first damn ones to come up with this ********. It never ever fails on here...Just wait until Freddie loses a game that they shouldn't.

the reactions here are no different than any other fan board, only most other fans boards are much much worse. ISU fans are very mild in comparison.

What QB has played 18 games for us?

Wonder why did not hire Franklin form Louisiana Tech? Rhoads had worked with him at Auburn.

**Omaha Cy** · 10-01-2012, 07:06 AM

I would liked to have seen Mess coach in the bowl game.

**Prometheus** · 10-01-2012, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by mikem

Wow....Nice

Do you really think that Courtney Messingham is a Tom Herman disciple?

They had never worked together before Iowa State.

If you can't really understand that the players that have been recruited on the offensive side of the ball were brought in to play the system of a coach that is no longer here, then I can't help you.

Fact is that Mess has a pretty varied and extensive resume. I am fairly certain that it is safe to say that he has developed his own philosophy in the time that he has coached. He is still finding his way at the biggest job he has ever had. He has definitely had a couple of bad games. But remember the decision to promote him was made by the HEAD coach.

If you want to criticize him for doing a poor job adjusting to the players that have been recruited here, then that is fine. If you want to criticize his play calling, that is also fine.

But the selective memory used to castigate a guy who has played all of 18 games as a college QB, and a coach that has had one Spring and one Fall camp to install his playbook with personel that he didn't recruit (other than the TE's and WR's of course) because we have to lash out because we played a terrible game on the offensive side of the ball is ridiculous.

The sad part is that it was fairly obvious that this was going to happen on here. The same people that sat here pumping the sunshine of how great we were going to be, are the first damn ones to come up with this ********. It never ever fails on here...Just wait until Freddie loses a game that they shouldn't.

Blah, blah, blah, I only had one question but yet you didn't answer it while bringing in alot of other stuff unrelated to me or my post.

I have one basic and simple question that you didn't answer. What type of player does Mess need to run the plays he wants to run. How is a "Mess" player going to be anything fundamentally different then what ISU puts on the field currently.

In the end football players play football. Other than an upgrade in talent and more depth, your notion that Mess requires a ceratin type of player - that he specifically needs to recruit in order for him to call the plays he wants to call - is beyond absurd.

**oldman** · 10-01-2012, 09:52 AM

I'm not ready to give up on the team or coaches just yet. The first three games, Mess had a decent game plan. The team came out on the opening possession, and marched right down the field for a touchdown.

Didn't happen Sat nite, but apparently some adjustments were made at halftime, because they marched down and scored on their first possession of the 2nd half, to take the lead.

It looked to me (and many others) like the O-line could not get any push. No holes for the run game, and Jantz running for his life half the night (when he wasn't getting sacked). I also think our receivers were struggling to get open. Maybe TT's defense is the real deal. Certainly looked like it to me.

**Wesley** · 10-01-2012, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Doc

If this is an OC issue, it should be on Rhoads, not Messingham. Just remember that.

I liked Herman and wasn't happy about him leaving. Rumors are that Rhoads and Herman clashed. I think that "clash" may be what our offense needs because Rhoads just doesn't have the offensive mind that is needed to kick *** like many of the other B12 teams. Mess and Sturdy can still get it done...but they may need to learn on the job a bit.

So will this year be a flush? Next year we lose a ton of seniors.

**Palmer** · 10-01-2012, 10:02 AM

Our band kicked *****!

**pulse** · 10-01-2012, 10:30 AM

What about Bleil?

**Doc** · 10-01-2012, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by cayin

mikem, how do you know Mess is "not doing exactly what he wants to do"?

Why can't I delete posts anymore

**Prometheus** · 10-01-2012, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by cayin

mikem, how do you know Mess is "not doing exactly what he wants to do"?

He's must be Mess's nephew.

**Land Grant** · 10-01-2012, 05:18 PM

The fact that Messingham is no good does not magically make Herman a great coach. Both of their offenses stunk.

How many OCs must fail using the spread/read option before we stop blaming the men and start blaming the scheme. This offense is, I believe, fundamentally incompatible with our talent pool and our HC's defense-first philosophy. Face it, this is a Rhoads problem.

**cyclone87** · 10-01-2012, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Land Grant

The fact that Messingham is no good does not magically make Herman a good coach. Both of their offenses are no good.

How many OCs must fail using the spread before we stop blaming them and realize that it is incompatible with our talent pool and our HC's defense-first philosophy. Fact is, this is a Rhoads problem.

I agree to a certain extent with this, we are really hurting our defense (which is our strong point) running the spread and going 3 and out most possessions (not holding on to the ball for a while and giving them a rest both physically and mentally). How many plays did Tech run in this game, seemed like a million, really pretty remarkable our D help up as long as they did.

**KycloneUno** · 10-01-2012, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Doc

Mess's big plus is continuity, his second big plus is that he seems to be a pretty damn good coach of individual WRs and TEs, and his third plus is that he drew up some nice plays as special teams coordinator on the B12 level. It's probably not enough to win a guy a job as a B12 coordinator, but I'm willing to give RHOADS the benefit of the doubt on it. This hire is simply on Rhoads.

How did you find any pluses?!?!?!

2 things I observed:
1: Jantz sucks just as bad as he always has and makes POOR decisions majority of the time. Not a BIG 12 starting quality QB. Not sure if Barnett is either?
2: Our offense as a whole sucks donkey @$$! Starts with the QB (maybe OC), but doesn't get any better.

**CychoCyclone** · 10-01-2012, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY

I do not regret that Herman is gone or bashing him. I regret not being more skeptical about replacing a failed OC with one of his subordinates to run the previous's OC's failed system.

It definitely does appear that we have a poor mans Tom Herman... I mean at least Herman was a little inventive, and took some shots here and there... Mess's gameplan is so bland, and beyond that it doesnt seem like he calls the right plays situationally, yet somehow still ends up being very predictable...

**mikem** · 10-02-2012, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by cayin

the reactions here are no different than any other fan board, only most other fans boards are much much worse. ISU fans are very mild in comparison.

What QB has played 18 games for us?

Wonder why did not hire Franklin form Louisiana Tech? Rhoads had worked with him at Auburn.

I get that this board is not extreme, compared to some others.

The problem is that there is a large segment on here that runs wild with expectations before every season. They talk themselves into delusions of grandeur, and question the fanhood of people that are more cautious.

These are also the FIRST ones to come on here with the sky is falling nonsense.

If you don't realize that Steele Jantz has played all of 18 games as a college QB, now you do.