Barnett

[jdoggivjc]

Herman isn't here anymore. You can let it go.

Herman isn't, but his subordinate is, and he's running the same offensive scheme that Herman did. And as bad as Herman was at running that scheme, his subordinate is worse.

[atlantacyclone]

You can argue this as much as you want but its the coach's job to take what we have and do the most with it. I don't know but I would guess that you would have to go pretty far back to find a game where we were more or less evenly matched and garnered less than 200 yards of total offense. So it seemed like we were calling the same plays over and over again with the same result. At the end of the day all we needed to do was take care of the ball and the D would have won the game. Sometimes I think that Jantz is amazing like that 3rd down run for 21 yards. For every moment like that there are about 5 where I wonder what he's thinking. Barnett took care of the ball. Give him a chance.

[acoustimac]

Better get reps next week. That was the worst game from a QB that I have seen at ISU since the mid 90's. I'm not taking just the turnovers, his choices in the zone read are maddening. He literally almost always makes the exact opposite choice that he should. JB never should have been pulled against Rutgers last year, and deserved to be the starter this year. I feel almost like CPR' s pride might be leading him to make a poor choice.

Really? Barnett was having a day like Steele had yesterday against Rutgers. I remember the Barnett that is no more accurate and more fumble prone than Jantz. Sometimes it's lesser of evils with these two.

[Big_Sill]

Better get reps next week. That was the worst game from a QB that I have seen at ISU since the mid 90's. I'm not taking just the turnovers, his choices in the zone read are maddening. He literally almost always makes the exact opposite choice that he should. JB never should have been pulled against Rutgers last year, and deserved to be the starter this year. I feel almost like CPR' s pride might be leading him to make a poor choice.

Our problems last night had little to do with QB play. This is the consensus from most people in a position to know.

[CychoCyclone]

Our problems last night had little to do with QB play. This is the consensus from most people in a position to know.

Agreed... Didn't matter who was out there... Whoever was playing QB for us last night was gonna be running for his life every play based on how the line played...

[Tre4ISU]

Agreed... Didn't matter who was out there... Whoever was playing QB for us last night was gonna be running for his life every play based on how the line played...

Which had as much to do with play calling as how the Oline played. Steele also doesn't make his life easier in his pocket movement.

[jdoggivjc]

I seem to remember running the option some last year as well. Perhaps running wide with the pitch option is a way of getting away from the 7 guys in a box status if our receivers can at least keep the corners/safeties busy. I have not seen an option yet this year. Not saying we can run the option every down, but a few times a game keeps defenses honest.

Funny you bring this up - during the 13 play, 10:00 minute TD drive, we did similar things - we ran the ball to the outside and it opened up both the running and passing game. So what did we do the remainder of the game? Run up the middle, run running plays that took too long to develop that got blown up in the back field, and run long-developing passing plays that caused Jantz to run for his life.

So what would I do differently? Yes, we have a bad offensive line, and to make matters worse, the defense is stacking the box with 7-8 defenders, but all is not lost. Take advantage of what the defense is giving you. In particular, the outside is open, so exploit it. Run the ball outside with pitches, sweeps, options, and swing passes. Take 3 step drop passing plays that utilize slants, posts, and quick outs. Once the defense begins to adjust by spreading out, then start pounding the ball up the middle and/or take some shots downfield. With this defense we have, you don't need an explosive, dynamic offense, you need an offense that will keep the defense off the field for stretches at a time. Of course scoring is important, but what's more important is an offense that can take 5 or so minutes off the clock and give the defense a rest.

[CychoCyclone]

Which had as much to do with play calling as how the Oline played. Steele also doesn't make his life easier in his pocket movement.

In his defense, the only option for pocket movement he got to do all night was run like hell...

[Cydkar]

We hit a perfect storm of poor Oline play, QB play, and play calling. They all affected each other to the point that it's hard to know who's fault it was. A great performance by one of those three might have led to an average offensive output. None of the three was near great.

[cyclone87]

Really? Barnett was having a day like Steele had yesterday against Rutgers. I remember the Barnett that is no more accurate and more fumble prone than Jantz. Sometimes it's lesser of evils with these two.

Yep, and then Steele came in and played even worse. Barnett seemed to be more confident in himself and was more decisive with his decision making last year, especially with the zone read. The offense really seemed to rally around him last year. I will admit he had a problem with fumbling though. I'm really not very partial to either just want us to win some games.

[Tre4ISU]

In his defense, the only option for pocket movement he got to do all night was run like hell...

He got sacked at least twice by running laterally instead of stepping up where he had room. He has never stepped up into the pocket. That's another issue. Yet another one is the fact that he doesn't seem to make pre-snap reads very well. He doesn't get the ball out quick. I'm wondering if that's why we don't run more flat/curl route combos. I don't remember the last time I saw us run a simple hitch which is literally wide open 90% of the time if we want it. We do no high/low on the outside and in general we just don't make defensive players commit.

[Big_Sill]

We hit a perfect storm of poor Oline play, QB play, and play calling. They all affected each other to the point that it's hard to know who's fault it was. A great performance by one of those three might have led to an average offensive output. None of the three was near great.

agree

my biggest concern is that we did not seem to have an identity last night. With 2 weeks to prepare I would have thought we would have identified areas where we thought we had an advantage. Are we a run first team? Are we a bubble sreen team? Maybe tech was just better than we planned for, but still I was disappointed in our game plan.

[FDCy83]

Funny you bring this up - during the 13 play, 10:00 minute TD drive, we did similar things - we ran the ball to the outside and it opened up both the running and passing game. So what did we do the remainder of the game? Run up the middle, run running plays that took too long to develop that got blown up in the back field, and run long-developing passing plays that caused Jantz to run for his life.

So what would I do differently? Yes, we have a bad offensive line, and to make matters worse, the defense is stacking the box with 7-8 defenders, but all is not lost. Take advantage of what the defense is giving you. In particular, the outside is open, so exploit it. Run the ball outside with pitches, sweeps, options, and swing passes. Take 3 step drop passing plays that utilize slants, posts, and quick outs. Once the defense begins to adjust by spreading out, then start pounding the ball up the middle and/or take some shots downfield. With this defense we have, you don't need an explosive, dynamic offense, you need an offense that will keep the defense off the field for stretches at a time. Of course scoring is important, but what's more important is an offense that can take 5 or so minutes off the clock and give the defense a rest.

Perhaps the reason we do not run the option this year is the QB. If SJ is not very good at running the zone read and reading a defensive end, is it possible he is much worse at running an option where you read multiple players to determine pitch or keep? Perhaps without JB as starting QB, the option is not an option. I agree that sweeps, pitches and such that stretch the play outside will force the defense to stop putting 7-8 guys between the tackles.

[TuckerBlayze]

[QUOTE=4Cyclones;3079478]I really am only putting one TO on SJ, and that is the fumble. One INT was on a wrong route (could be on SJ), but the TO on the pass to Brun was not SJ fault. The last one was a good read, but it was such a long pass while trying to make something happen quickly, that I don't put that on SJ.

That was on the QB...if you saw where the DB was compared to Lenz it was an easy read and probably 8-10 yard completion. SJ has troubles reading defenses, changing the play when a blitz is coming, and gets flustered when defenses play with his head. When he thinks, he is horrible. When he just plays, he is much better.

[Cyched]

We hit a perfect storm of poor Oline play, QB play, and play calling. They all affected each other to the point that it's hard to know who's fault it was. A great performance by one of those three might have led to an average offensive output. None of the three was near great.

Well put. Jantz underperformed immensely, but the problem goes a lot deeper than the QB play. The coaches have a lot of things with the offense that they need to figure out, and soon.

As for who should start, I wouldn't be surprised to see Barnett (or anyone else for that matter) go in at TCU if Jantz doesn't do well on our first couple offensive possessions. I really don't see CPR being so stubborn to not change something that is becoming a liability to the team.