Notebook: QB competition to dominate TCU week

[IHavNoCyCash]

this should shut up the Richardson lovers.

[bizzle]

No, he tied with receivers who couldn't get off press coverage and a line which struggled mightily with consistency. It doesn't matter if Aaron Rodgers is taking the snaps if the receivers don't ever find space to throw to. It also doesn't matter if the line can't keep a free runner out of the quarterback's face. The offense outside running backs was awful Saturday night and that had to do with
a) Play calling
b) Inconsistent run blocking
c) Inconsistent pass blocking
d) Receivers not creating space
e) Quarterback not protecting the ball when he runs

Last year's Steele has 2 or 3 more turnovers in that game because he would've tried forcing what wasn't there. This year's Steele took much more calculated risks and had one completely boneheaded turnover (the fumble).

I guess I'm just unsure how 'bad' the playcalling was vs. a QB who played the wrong read 3 out of 4 times we ran said play. He runs into White and Johnson all the time. We're never going to win if we can't run the basic elements of the offense we have the pieces for.

[bizzle]

And FWIW, I recognize Jantz has the much stronger arm and that, theoretically, if we wanted to throw it deep off play-action, it would be much easier to do so with Jantz. But he's inaccurate and our WRs are much better off short reads and screens, which suits JB more. In some ways, it feel like the coaches are forcing SJ to run a JB-type offense.

[Drive4cy]

I've never been a fan of SJ but all year I get the impression the coaches have been holding him back. I suppose they're afraid he will make mistakes but when you have a gunslinger at QB you have to ride or die with it. Instead of the highs and lows of Steele, we're only getting "scared to make a mistake" Steele every game it seems. I wish they would get more aggressive and let Steele make plays. Messingham has been awful through 4 games this year.

I do find it comical how much support Steele gets and how little Barnett gets on here. If Barnett had a game where he had 73 yards passing and 4 turnovers people would be sending him on the next flight back to Garland. The double standard is fascinating to me.

[Topshelf]

I don't think SJ gets a ton of support on here. I see multiple threads calling for his benching.

I think he is the guy. I don't think the coaches would put him out because they like him more. Obviously he is doing something better than the other guys.

[IHavNoCyCash]

I've never been a fan of SJ but all year I get the impression the coaches have been holding him back. I suppose they're afraid he will make mistakes but when you have a gunslinger at QB you have to ride or die with it. Instead of the highs and lows of Steele, we're only getting "scared to make a mistake" Steele every game it seems. I wish they would get more aggressive and let Steele make plays. Messingham has been awful through 4 games this year.

I do find it comical how much support Steele gets and how little Barnett gets on here. If Barnett had a game where he had 73 yards passing and 4 turnovers people would be sending him on the next flight back to Garland. The double standard is fascinating to me.

Exactly right. Besides the Iowa (last year) and half of Tulsa games, has he played "good" in any other games??

[IcSyU]

I guess I'm just unsure how 'bad' the playcalling was vs. a QB who played the wrong read 3 out of 4 times we ran said play. He runs into White and Johnson all the time. We're never going to win if we can't run the basic elements of the offense we have the pieces for.

He didn't read it wrong 3 out of 4 times so you're flat out wrong. Last year yes that was a possibility. This year he has read it correctly 80%+ of the time.

And FWIW, I recognize Jantz has the much stronger arm and that, theoretically, if we wanted to throw it deep off play-action, it would be much easier to do so with Jantz. But he's inaccurate and our WRs are much better off short reads and screens, which suits JB more. In some ways, it feel like the coaches are forcing SJ to run a JB-type offense.

Neither of our quarterbacks are accurate. I'd argue Jantz is also better at throwing the receiver screens and slants because he gets the ball there quickly and it gets secured more quickly instead of it kind of floating out there out of Barnett's hand. Last season I would've said Barnett crushes Jantz when it comes to touch but Steele's touch has been much improved this season. I think some of Barnett's "touch" just comes from not having as strong of an arm to throw passes. The damn corner route we love (that I hate) to throw isn't a throw Barnett can make just like he struggled to throw out routes last year.

[IcSyU]

Exactly right. Besides the Iowa and half of Tulsa games, has he played "good" in any other games??

Strictly throwing the ball, Tulsa, Iowa, and Western Illinois are all better ratings than Barnett had at any point last season (expected given level of competition). Barnett looked AWFUL against Western Illinois in his only appearance this season. Jantz also improved his ratings from the non-conference slate last season.

[UNIGuy4Cy]

Strictly throwing the ball, Tulsa, Iowa, and Western Illinois are all better ratings than Barnett had at any point last season (expected given level of competition). Barnett looked AWFUL against Western Illinois in his only appearance this season. Jantz also improved his ratings from the non-conference slate last season.

Did Barnett play as easy competition as Steele did those 3 games? All three of those defenses are not as good as 1 defense Barnett saw last season. Barnett did look bad but the guy had 1 or series, thats like judging a pitcher in the first inning of his first start before he ever gets time to settle down. Did you expect a Peyton Manning like performance on his first few live snaps of the year?

[cydsho]

This entire team would look better if Steele would just hand off the ******* ball.

I'm pretty sure our rbs are the best group we've had in a long time. So i would give this post 2 thumbs up.
I thought our run game should have been the priority all year because that is where our strength is on offense. There we rbs that had a hole and jantz kept it. He couldnt even follow a blocker through a 3 yard hole at one time.

[bizzle]

He didn't read it wrong 3 out of 4 times so you're flat out wrong. Last year yes that was a possibility. This year he has read it correctly 80%+ of the time.

Neither of our quarterbacks are accurate. I'd argue Jantz is also better at throwing the receiver screens and slants because he gets the ball there quickly and it gets secured more quickly instead of it kind of floating out there out of Barnett's hand. Last season I would've said Barnett crushes Jantz when it comes to touch but Steele's touch has been much improved this season. I think some of Barnett's "touch" just comes from not having as strong of an arm to throw passes. The damn corner route we love (that I hate) to throw isn't a throw Barnett can make just like he struggled to throw out routes last year.

How often do you think he read it correctly against Tech? He read it decently against Tulsa and Iowa. He read it really, really poorly against Tech. You don't run into your RB unless you're following him up a hole, and if you're following him up a hole you should have given him the ball. 80% is not a correct estimate (for that matter, 3/4 is wrong, too. Say 50%?)

I think Jantz and Barnett are about even on touch, and I think you're correct that JB can't throw that fade (and I'm also with you that it makes no sense to throw). But I don't think Steele can throw it reliably either. And for all that's made about how far he can throw it, he missed about 3 TDs against Iowa on badly-aimed deep balls, and has thrown several mind-boggling INTs that can only be chalked up to having little idea where the ball is going when it leaves his hand. JB is a bad passer, and can't even throw the ball deep in the first place.

I still don't understand--and have been given virtually no examples of--the supposed skills Steele has that put him ahead of JB. Can't throw well, can't run the zone read, coughs it up all the time (especially during crunch time), 0-4 in the Big XII. If Jantz is the man come Saturday, I'll cheer my *** off for him because, like I said, I love how hard he plays and how much he cares. But I don't see what he does well.


For me it comes down to this: neither guy can pass worth a ****, and we run the zone read. Why not play the guy who knows how to run it?

[UNIGuy4Cy]

All that matters to me with Barnett, once he got his feet under him, was his performance in these games. The OU game was just a mess, with rain and wind. As for the KSU game, his play kept us in the game.

Saturday 10/29/11		at Texas Tech Red Raiders Jones AT&T Stadium, Lubbock, TX	Won 41-7	---
Saturday 11/05/11		Kansas Jayhawks Jack Trice Stadium, Ames, IA	Won 13-10	---
Saturday 11/12/11	---	Open Date	---	---
Friday 11/18/11		Oklahoma State Cowboys Jack Trice Stadium, Ames, IA	Won 37-31 (OT)	---
Saturday 11/26/11		at Oklahoma Sooners Gaylord Family OK Mem. Stadium, Norman, OK	Lost 26-6	---
Saturday 12/03/11		at Kansas State Wildcats Bill Snyder Family FB Stadium, Manhattan, KS	Lost 30-23

[Wesley]

Not a big NFL fan minus watching my Chiefs, so I have now watched the game from Saturday twice and holes were there if Jantz hands the ball off to White and SJ. The offensive did not play that bad, Jantz just seems to spin his way into pressure, not sure why he does this. I have no love affair with either quarterback but if we are zone read offense, put the player in there that can do that. Neither player throws worth a damn, we just need the quarterback to throw here and there to keep the defense honest. I think Steele Jantz is way more athletic, but is not as smart. Jantz is a very similar player to Mike Vick. Mike Vick can make guys miss but does not have the decision making skills. One play he makes your jaw drop the next play he makes you scream. Same can be said with Jantz. At this point, with this defense, you need a game manager. Does Barnett fumble the ball? Sure, but the difference between throwing interceptions and fumbling, is fumbles can be recovered by the offense where a pick is turnover no matter what. Sometimes athletic ability does not always lead to the best quarterback play, I think this is an example of that.

Matt Cassel comes to mind.

[TuckerBlayze]

Seriously.

The fumble was all Steele, and was inexcusable. Yes, very costly play

The interception off Brun's drop was just an unlucky football play. If it is anybody's fault it is Brun, not Steele. That was just a good and lucky defensive play - Nobodys fault

The interception off the Hail Mary is a risk you take with a Hail Mary. NO! That pass did not need to be thrown! This is on Steele - If time was running out and it was the last play then yes throw it up for grabs, but not when there was time left and you could have run for quite a few yards instead.

The interception when Lenz ran the other direction? That's definitely on one of those two, not sure who. This was on Steele also, CPR even said so after the game.

So of the four turnovers one was on Steele, one might be on Steele, one was on the receiver, and one was a Hail Mary. So by my count thats 3 on Steele and one good play by the defense

That's still not great, but given how our line was playing I don't see how Barnett would have done any better. If we'd made a move it should have been to Richardson since he is the better passer and with the way Tech was eating our O-Line alive the running game wasn't there.

I will agree with you on the Richardson part but Barnett would have made a difference. As people have said, there were holes but the wrong read was made. Barnett would have more than likely made the right read and forced Tech to back-off the line and other things might have opened up. There was NO fear of Jantz from the Tech side. They didn't respect his running and dared him to throw.

[Wesley]

1 of those turnovers was on steele.

Nobody but steele and lenz know if you could up that to 2.

It has been explained that Lenz was right and SJ wrong as the defensive back was back pedaling just before the start of the play. SJ failed to recognize the guy dropping back.