A True Playmaking QB???

[swarthmoreCY]

1.)The major issue that I have with the coaching is the lack of run game. The run sets up the pass. Consistency starts with the run game...
2.)CPR has got to make sure Mess sets the run-pass %'s at 60-40 run. We have 4 players averaging over 4.4 YPC (DV - 6.3, JW - 5.1, JB - 4.6, SJ - 4.4). However, we've thrown it a lot more than we've ran it. I know we throw a lot of screens, but I would rather see us run the ball, use the clock, and use our base offense more efficiently
3.)I know some will say we've had to throw alot because we've been behind. But, if you get the run game going to start the game, you tend to stay alive in those games because you shorten the game and save your defense.

1.) It is amazing the general success we have on called run plays given we already have teams disregarding our pass game. In away, we almost already have set-up the pass (unfortunately, partially due to our pass game being so poor rather than our run game being so great), yet we cannot not capitalize. Why? IMO, part of the answer is in your second point.

2.)I could not agree more with this point, and it is disappointing after 4 years this needs to be said. We MUST stop treating the passing game as a run. For one, we are better at running than passing, so stop trying to accomplish the run with via the pass so often. Second, the fact these plays are the base of our passing game, greatly wastes the fact defenses are playing the run. I know we are not good in the skills of the passing game, but schematically we limit our ability to capitalize.

3.)To your overall point- our offense identity is what? So far, it seems we will do what the defense dictates. We will not be very successful when the defense knows we will throw the ball (conventionally, not our infamous pass-to-run). We do not have the play-calling or plays that would cause "even a blind squirrel to find a nut", or whatever cliché you prefer.

[cyhiphopp]

Someone may have covered this, but I think one reason our OL pass blocking is suffering is because defenses are selling out on the blitz and sending more than we can block. Until our QB makes them pay for doing that, the OL has no chance. I think they did a decent job of protecting Jantz against Texas but either Jantz, or his receivers, did not make them pay for the blitz.

When Jantz did get time our receivers did not get open and/or catch the effing ball.


I really don't think the OL is our main problem.

If we had a better QB, as someone stated earlier, they would have a better chance at making the passes under pressure and force the defense to stop sending 5 or 6 guys every pass play. That backs defenders off the line and puts less guys in the box which opens up the run game more. More effective running leads to productive passing opportunities.

It's a big cycle that all comes together if everyone can do their job. I think a big hole in our cycle has been consistency from the QB position. Jantz was able to make Baylor pay for blitzing because they are just not as talented or well coached on defense. He hasn't been able to do that against OU or UT consistently.

[SouthJerseyCy]

Someone may have covered this, but I think one reason our OL pass blocking is suffering is because defenses are selling out on the blitz and sending more than we can block. Until our QB makes them pay for doing that, the OL has no chance. I think they did a decent job of protecting Jantz against Texas but either Jantz, or his receivers, did not make them pay for the blitz.

When Jantz did get time our receivers did not get open and/or catch the effing ball.


I really don't think the OL is our main problem.

If we had a better QB, as someone stated earlier, they would have a better chance at making the passes under pressure and force the defense to stop sending 5 or 6 guys every pass play. That backs defenders off the line and puts less guys in the box which opens up the run game more. More effective running leads to productive passing opportunities.

It's a big cycle that all comes together if everyone can do their job. I think a big hole in our cycle has been consistency from the QB position. Jantz was able to make Baylor pay for blitzing because they are just not as talented or well coached on defense. He hasn't been able to do that against OU or UT consistently.

^^^^ This ^^^^

When the other team brings pressure 80% of the time it leads to Jantz throwing while backpeddling or on a wild scramble (often to his left) both of which result in passes sailing and giving defenders a chance to react.

There has to be a hot read that Jantz has got to recognize and deliver. If there isn't then that's Messingham's fault.

[jbhtexas]

I just don't understand how people are deriving there opinions on this kid.

Ignorance.

My guess would be that JB won't change positions, but rather, if no coaching changes are made on the offensive side, he will consider transferring. He (as well as Jantz) need development-type coaching, and they aren't getting it at ISU. At least for JB, he is only a sophomore, and has a couple of years of playing time left, so he could benefit from a good QB coach.

And yes, I realize that technically SJ's stats are better than last year, but if you look at conference-only games, the stats are only marginally better, and (the bigger issue) nowhere close to where they need to be for ISU to be a middle-and-up contender in the Big 12. TCU's FR QB is putting up better numbers than SJ.

 PASS EFFICIENCY    Team Cl  G Att Cmp Int  Pct.  Yds TD  Eff.
 -------------------------------------------------------------
 1. Klein, Collin.. KSU  SR  7 149 102   1  68.5 1411  7 162.2
 2. Florence, Nick. BU   SR  6 233 140   7  60.1 2187 14 152.8
 3. Doege, Seth.... TTU  SR  7 319 220   8  69.0 2487 22 152.2
 4. Ash, David..... UT   SO  7 192 128   5  66.7 1651 10 150.9
 5. Jones, Landry.. OU   SR  6 230 151   5  65.7 1861 14 149.4
 6. Smith, Geno.... WVU  SR  6 282 189   3  67.0 1969 19 145.8
 7. Boykin, Trevone TCU  FR  6 213 121   8  56.8 1466 13 127.3
 8. Jantz, Steele.. ISU  SR  6 150  85   7  56.7  812  7 108.2
 9. Cummings, Micha KU   FR  6  78  35   4  44.9  347  3  84.7

And I don't blame just the QBs. The QBs can't make throws, WRs can't catch and run proper routes, OL can't block. Same story year after year. There seems to be no player development. This is going to come back to hurt ISU (if it hasn't already). The better offensive recruits will not give ISU any consideration if ISU can't demonstrate the ability to develop them into better players.

[FootballinTexas]

Someone may have covered this, but I think one reason our OL pass blocking is suffering is because defenses are selling out on the blitz and sending more than we can block. Until our QB makes them pay for doing that, the OL has no chance. I think they did a decent job of protecting Jantz against Texas but either Jantz, or his receivers, did not make them pay for the blitz.

When Jantz did get time our receivers did not get open and/or catch the effing ball.


I really don't think the OL is our main problem.

If we had a better QB, as someone stated earlier, they would have a better chance at making the passes under pressure and force the defense to stop sending 5 or 6 guys every pass play. That backs defenders off the line and puts less guys in the box which opens up the run game more. More effective running leads to productive passing opportunities.

It's a big cycle that all comes together if everyone can do their job. I think a big hole in our cycle has been consistency from the QB position. Jantz was able to make Baylor pay for blitzing because they are just not as talented or well coached on defense. He hasn't been able to do that against OU or UT consistently.

Baylor played very soft on their blitzes. They play very similar to us. They bring pressure hoping someone misses an assignment. If it gets picked up, you're in danger of giving up a big play because they don't have guys that can play press-man.

The good teams are playing man-2 or man-free when they blitz. They have the talent to play press-man. But you beat the blitz with your athletic TE going one-on-one with a ILB 7-10 yards downfield in the middle of the field. We are trying to beat it with our small slot guys or running go routes. We only have 2 guys that have shown they can beat press coverage, Lenz (TCU) and Bundrage (OSU). Our TE's need their hand in the grass helping with run blocking and our "athletic" TE should be working the middle of the field against LB's, not in the slot being covered by Sam and Will. Imaging the QB throwing hot to a true 6'4" TE in a vacated zone instead of to a 5'7" WR. I promise you those high passes are not as high anymore.

[swarthmoreCY]

And yes, I realize that technically SJ's stats are better than last year, but if you look at conference-only games, the stats are only marginally better, and (the bigger issue) nowhere close to where they need to be for ISU to be a middle-and-up contender in the Big 12. TCU's FR QB is putting up better numbers than SJ.

I do not agree with the offense, and I think it was faulty logic to expect much development in this offense when our OC has no prior experience running this offense, but TCU's FR QB putting up better numbers does not support your point. Until next year's data is in, it is impossible to say he is developing more. TCU's QB is just better, with more surrounding talent.

[jbhtexas]

I do not agree with the offense, and I think it was faulty logic to expect much development in this offense when our OC has no prior experience running this offense, but TCU's FR QB putting up better numbers does not support your point. Until next year's data is in, it is impossible to say he is developing more. TCU's QB is just better, with more surrounding talent.

The point is not that he's developing more, the point is that he is already more developed as a FR than is a SR QB at ISU.

[IcSyU]

The point is not that he's developing more, the point is that he is already more developed as a FR than is a SR QB at ISU.

Talented =/= developed.

[Judoka]

There has to be a hot read that Jantz has got to recognize and deliver. If there isn't then that's Messingham's fault.

There have been multiple times where Jantz has thrown to a hot route and the receiver doesn't even turn around for it. There is a clear communication breakdown on offense and that is Mess's mess to fix.

[swarthmoreCY]

The point is not that he's developing more, the point is that he is already more developed as a FR than is a SR QB at ISU.

Yes, but for a freshman that goes back to recruiting, not development of QB's, which was the contention of your previous point. There is no data on Boykins to prove that he is more developed right now (which is opinion) due to development at TCU. In fact, given they are similar (even with Boykins having more surrounding talent), and have both been at their respective programs for 1 prior season, you would be hard pressed to pick a worse example to prove such a well accepted point.

[swarthmoreCY]

There have been multiple times where Jantz has thrown to a hot route and the receiver doesn't even turn around for it. There is a clear communication breakdown on offense and that is Mess's mess to fix.

Plus Wells, who has already been "reassigned".

[jbhtexas]

Talented =/= developed.

I understand that. However, if ISU's goal is to develop less talented players into Big 12 caliber starters, instead of recruiting more talented players, then something is horribly wrong. A starting SR QB should be doing better than a RS FR who wasn't supposed to see the field this year. And both of them are near the bottom of the Big 12. I'd expect that for a RS FR.

And again, SJ's numbers reflect to some extent problems other than just his development as a QB.

[Luth4Cy]

So, we are downgrading a QB who has won four Big 12 games against top 25 teams to a back up reciever/holder??? Are you kidding me??? Barnett is a QB, and a winner, I am not giving up on him as a sophomore. I don't think he has been give a fair shot, he started 3 games this year against REALLY good Big 12 defenses. Two of these games against top 3 defenses in the league. Jared Barnett has us in a position to upset the #1 BCS team in the nation in the 4th quarter. I just don't understand how people are deriving there opinions on this kid. We have 2 big 12 wins this year, and if you look at the competition, Barnett's win was WAY more impressive.

He is definitely a winner. I just don't think he's a quality QB at this level. Maybe I'll be proved wrong. Even last year after the Oklahoma State game I left thinking about how he wasn't going to be our starter down the road. He's a great game manager, he can run the zone read well, but he lacks accuracy. On top of that he doesn't have that strong of an arm. I don't think I'm downgrading him, just suggesting that come this time in a year or so Rohach and Richardson might be a lot better of overall quarterbacks.

[troutslayer]

Against OU

Series 1 - P,R,P punt
Series 2 - R,P,R,P,P,R,R,P punt
Series 3 - P,R,P,P
OU scores 7-0
Series 4 - P,R,R,R,P punt
Givens INT ball on OU 15
Series 5 - P,P,P FG (7-3)
Givens INT ball on OU 49
Series 6 - P,R,P,R,P,P,P FG (7-6)
OU Scores 14-6
Series 7 - P,P halftime

1st half Run/Pass: 31 Plays - 11 runs or 35% We are only behind 14-6 at the half but we were 65% pass. Just imagine if we would have really tried to establish the run when were still in the game.

If you look at the season as a whole though, offensive plays are 51% pass, 49% run, which tells me we are mixing it up pretty good. Another thing that needs to be figured in is down and distance. So many times we end up with 2nd and 9 or 3rd and 6+. If we could could get 4-5 yards consistently on 1st down we have more options on what to run on 2nd or 3rd down. We are 38% on 3rd down conversions.