***OFFICIAL FIRE MESSINGHAM THREAD***

[megamanxzero35]

In 2011 (Herman's 3rd year) we scored 295 points.

In 2012 (Messinham's 1st year) we scored 319 points.

Can somebody explain (using math) how we got worse under Messingham.

Total Offense in 2011: 5025.
Total Offense in 2012: 4734.

[CycloneErik]

Like I alluded to, being dedicated to an in-house hire was a mistake if true. And no, Mess's resume was not somewhat expected of an OC at Iowa State.

Underwhelming at the time, very underwhelming hire now.

If we aren't questioning Bliel's employment as the OL coach, we really aren't thinking right. He has to be in the discussion.

[swarthmoreCY]

I disagree with you, plain and simple. Mess was the hire I expected and frankly for a school like Iowa State the only other name that really excited me was Tony Franklin. Rhoads needed a guy that understood the culture of Iowa State along with the offense, that guy was Mess.

For a school like Iowa State? Your low opinion of ISU is not a rebuttal. ISU is in the Big 12 and can offer a competitive salary for the right guy. Mess was jumping around between FCS and the Iowa Conference AND had no experience leading this type of offense. We can do much, much better.
Rhoads did needed a guy that was an expert in his offense, whatever that may be, in order to be competent on offense. By the way, Mess's implementation of Herman's offense does not fit your "culture of ISU" argument.

[kilgore_trout]

Offense is and has been the problem since Rhoads was hired. Fix it coach! Don't be Lovie Smith.

[twojman]

Offense is and has been the problem since Rhoads was hired. Fix it coach! Don't be Lovie Smith.

No doubt about it...

[Luth4Cy]

For a school like Iowas State? Your low opinion of ISU is not a rebuttal. ISU is in the Big 12 and can offer a competitive salary for the right guy. Mess was jumping around between FCS and the Iowa Conference AND had no experience leading this type of offense. We can do much, much better.
Rhoads did needed a guy that was an expert in his offense, whatever that may be, in order to be competent on offense. By the way, Mess's implementation of Herman's offense does not fit your "culture of ISU" argument.

By culture of ISU I do not mean understanding the offense, I mean the difference between a guy like McDermott and a guy like Hoiberg, or maybe the fact that Nick Saban couldn't win here with the types of recruits we get. I would really like to know who you exactly wanted to hire as OC?

[norcalcy]

By culture of ISU I do not mean understanding the offense, I mean the difference between a guy like McDermott and a guy like Hoiberg, or maybe the fact that Nick Saban couldn't win here with the types of recruits we get. I would really like to know who you exactly wanted to hire as OC?

God I hate this attitude. K State wins with recruits like ours. Vandy, northwestern and or state win with recruits like ours. The big 12 was down this year. So tired of this crap about how we can't compete. We're either a Big 12 program or we aren't. Unfortunately we weren't even a conf USA team today. Get some frisking coaching talent on the offensive side of the ball. We're doing it on defense for @&@$ sake.

[Luth4Cy]

God I hate this attitude. K State wins with recruits like ours. Vandy, northwestern and or state win with recruits like ours. The big 12 was down this year. So tired of this crap about how we can't compete. We're either a Big 12 program or we aren't. Unfortunately we weren't even a conf USA team today. Get some frisking coaching talent on the offensive side of the ball. We're doing it on defense for @&@$ sake.

I didn't say we couldn't compete, I said we needed the right guy to compete. K-State competes because they have a coach that understands their culture. Think of the coaches that have won at Iowa State, they understood Iowa State. It's a place where not anyone can coach. They have to be a good coach, but they also have to understand what they are up against. They have to understand they won't get the top recruits, so they will then have to rely more on hard work and fundamentals to compete.

[swarthmoreCY]

By culture of ISU I do not mean understanding the offense, I mean the difference between a guy like McDermott and a guy like Hoiberg, or maybe the fact that Nick Saban couldn't win here with the types of recruits we get. I would really like to know who you exactly wanted to hire as OC?

Understanding the culture as in "the difference between a guy like McD and a guy like Hoiberg"? What does that even mean in regards to hiring an OC?
Nevertheless, the difference between Fred and McD does nothing but support my argument. McD understood the "cultural" part of ISU, but he did not have the background of major college hoops. He was familiar with the MVC and North Dakota level. Fred intimately understood what it takes to win in the Big 12.

I am not sure where Nick Saban's hypothetical record comes into play when discussing offense and OC at ISU being able to be better than bad and Mess, respectively. You do know we just put 10 points up on offense against Tulsa. Go take a look at their recruits. Almost any hire from FBS that was brining in their own offense would have been better than staying in-house and have Mess call someone else's failed offense.


Prior to this season thinking hiring Mess was optimal was ignoring most logic. Thinking so after this year is just being stupid.

[Luth4Cy]

Understanding the culture as in "the difference between a guy like McD and a guy like Hoiberg"? What does that even mean in regards to hiring an OC?
Nevertheless, the difference between Fred and McD does nothing but support my argument. McD understood the "cultural" part of ISU, but he did not have the background of major college hoops. He was familiar with the MVC and North Dakota level. Fred intimately understood what it takes to win in the Big 12.

I am not sure where Nick Saban's hypothetical record comes into play when discussing offense and OC at ISU being able to be better than bad and Mess, respectively. You do know we just put 10 points up on offense against Tulsa. Go take a look at their recruits. Almost any hire from FBS that was brining in their own offense would have been better than staying in-house and have Mess call someone else's failed offense.


Prior to this season thinking hiring Mess was optimal was ignoring most logic. Thinking so after this year is just being stupid.

A coach has to understand the school they are coaching at. Frankly figuring out how to win at Iowa State is different than Alabama. They must be a "good fit" if you will, since evidently you are unsure what the definition of the word "culture" is. And once again, who would you have hired? I really want to know this because obviously you are an expert on all of the FBS coaches that we could have hired instead of him.

[bozclone]

I think Coach Rhoads thought Mess would allow there to be consistency in the program. I'm sure he thought the talent level was improving and the offense would be better because of it. It just didn't happen. The offense needs good quarterback play and we haven't had that.

It is odd how successful we are with the scripted plays and then we seem to struggle as the game progresses.

[RING4CY]

he has to go now if he don't CPR needs to have a brain check

Someone needs a grammar check.

[swarthmoreCY]

A coach has to understand the school they are coaching at. Frankly figuring out how to win at Iowa State is different than Alabama. They must be a "good fit" if you will, since evidently you are unsure what the definition of the word "culture" is. And once again, who would you have hired? I really want to know this because obviously you are an expert on all of the FBS coaches that we could have hired instead of him.

Again, why are you bringing up Alabama? There are more options other than Mess and someone coaching at Alabama.
Has Mess shown he knows what it takes to win at ISU? Understanding the culture is not even on the same page of considerations as understanding how to run an offense in Big 12.
The list of who would have been a more logical hire is so large. Mess offered so little in terms of suggesting he knew how to run a successful offense at ISU it is laughable you think ISU could not have done better.

[Clonefan94]

I think Coach Rhoads thought Mess would allow there to be consistency in the program. I'm sure he thought the talent level was improving and the offense would be better because of it. It just didn't happen. The offense needs good quarterback play and we haven't had that.

It is odd how successful we are with the scripted plays and then we seem to struggle as the game progresses.

Not odd, it proves the lack of coaching talent. Anyone can cook from a recipe. Putting together a meal from what's thrown at you takes talent. Mess has to go, that was disgusting.

[besserheimerphat]

First 24 hours after a loss on CF...

“And the wild things roared their terrible roars and gnashed their terrible teeth and rolled their terrible eyes and showed their terrible claws.”