New FB Coach

**RustShack** · 01-25-2013, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Luth4Cy

Should be fine as long as they work and play well together, and it is clear who gets the final call on offensive decisions.

Yeah its usually not a big problem unless its the HC getting to involved... ala Todd Haley and Charlie Weis in KC a few years ago.

**swarthmoreCY** · 01-25-2013, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclonic1

Read the linked resume - This guy has the experience we were looking for - OL experience for both running and passing attacks.

He has specialized and is an expert in the zone-read, with experience coaching the OL is such an offense. If we are set on using that as THE foundation of our offense, this guy's resume is exactly what you want to see. He has been a successful OC in that offense. He has coached at all levels of college football. This is a home run, and exactly the type of coach that many had in mind when suggesting we could improve our coaching staff.
Still would like to see a QB coach.

**klamath632** · 01-25-2013, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by State43

This seems like a great hire for us. Love that he had success at Nevada before AK.

I'm loving the new sig. It looks like Korey and Will (is that Will?) are staring at the 50 foot woman in the I-State boyshorts in your avatar.

And as always, the avatar is great.

**RustShack** · 01-25-2013, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY

He has specialized and is an expert in the zone-read, with experience coaching the OL is such an offense. If we are set on using that as THE foundation of our offense, this guy's resume is exactly what you want to see. He has been a successful OC in that offense. He has coached at all levels of college football. This is a home run, and exactly the type of coach that many had in mind when suggesting we could improve our coaching staff.
Still would like to see a QB coach.

I still don't think Mess is a bad QB coach. Jantz really did play better this year, he looked so much more accurate on throws. Richardson seemed to look pretty decent too as a freshman. The offense as a whole was bad, I think it was more him as the OC being the problem rather than him being the QB coach. If Messingham really listens to Klenakis on the running game, and Sturdy on the passing game we could see a pretty big improvement.

**Luth4Cy** · 01-25-2013, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by RustShack

I still don't think Mess is a bad QB coach. Jantz really did play better this year, he looked so much more accurate on throws. Richardson seemed to look pretty decent too as a freshman. The offense as a whole was bad, I think it was more him as the OC being the problem rather than him being the QB coach. If Messingham really listens to Klenakis on the running game, and Sturdy on the passing game we could see a pretty big improvement.

Certainly not a QB coach problem IMO. Maybe an OC problem but definitely an offensive problem as a whole. This move addresses some of our weaknesses and should make us a better offense as a whole. I think Mess has potential as an OC and deserves another year as a play caller to prove that potential. Unless part of getting Klenakis was giving him the ability to call plays and demoting Mess.

**swarthmoreCY** · 01-25-2013, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by RustShack

Because we didn't have one?

There is a valid argument of why have such a guy be the coach of a position that is not even on the field every snap? Seems as though he should at least be OL, if not OC and OL imo. I could even see OC and TE.
Also, as far as having a TE coach at all, imo we should get away from just assigning the QB position to the OC. Ideally the QB coach is the OC coach, but if not, get an actual QB coach.

Originally Posted by RustShack

I still don't think Mess is a bad QB coach. Jantz really did play better this year, he looked so much more accurate on throws. Richardson seemed to look pretty decent too as a freshman. The offense as a whole was bad, I think it was more him as the OC being the problem rather than him being the QB coach. If Messingham really listens to Klenakis on the running game, and Sturdy on the passing game we could see a pretty big improvement.

Is that an argument for or against Mess as OC? Seems like the latter to me. Why not just move the navigator(s) to the drivers seat?

But can we do better?...because we need to. Unless Mess was horrible, Jantz was going to be better simply from being in the offense another year, and being a QB another year. We have no idea how Mess did with Richardson, but imo I do not think you can argue he was really improving in his 2.75 games.

**RustShack** · 01-25-2013, 05:13 PM

QB's didn't improve from one year to the next under Herman. AA actually regressed. It was an argument that the QB coach wasn't the problem, it was the OC. It was also the OC's first year calling plays in that offense. Hes going to have to improve going forward, and he should listen to these coaches he has. One has great experience with the passing game, one has great experience in the running game. Work with them to bring one good offense together.

**State43** · 01-25-2013, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by klamath632

I'm loving the new sig. It looks like Korey and Will (is that Will?) are staring at the 50 foot woman in the I-State boyshorts in your avatar.

And as always, the avatar is great.

Thank you my good sir. Yeah, that's Will

**swarthmoreCY** · 01-25-2013, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by RustShack

QB's didn't improve from one year to the next under Herman. AA actually regressed. It was an argument that the QB coach wasn't the problem, it was the OC. It was also the OC's first year calling plays in that offense. Hes going to have to improve going forward, and he should listen to these coaches he has. One has great experience with the passing game, one has great experience in the running game. Work with them to bring one good offense together.

Are we talking about bringing Herman back? Hard to believe I know, but there are more options than Mess and Herman. Never-mind there are many moving parts to that.

Mess maybe becoming sufficient with more training and depending on those underneath showing him the way is not a defense for a Big 12 level OC.

**RustShack** · 01-25-2013, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY

Are we talking about bringing Herman back? Hard to believe I know, but there are more options than Mess and Herman. Never-mind there are many moving parts to that.

Mess maybe becoming sufficient with more training and depending on those underneath showing him the way is not a defense for a Big 12 level OC.

But its OK in the NFL? When the Chiefs had the best offense in the NFL ten or so years ago, Al Saunders was the OC and ran the passing game, the OL coach was in charge of their running game.

**Luth4Cy** · 01-25-2013, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY

Are we talking about bringing Herman back? Hard to believe I know, but there are more options than Mess and Herman. Never-mind there are many moving parts to that.

Mess maybe becoming sufficient with more training and depending on those underneath showing him the way is not a defense for a Big 12 level OC.

It is if he is the best guy to call the plays and make the in game changes. If he understands the offense the best while Sturdy may only really understand the passing game or Klenakis the run game. Mess also may be the guy with the best CEO like abilities within the offensive staff, meaning he is the best guy for the job.

**Cycsk** · 01-25-2013, 05:41 PM

[QUOTE=abe2010;3271213]

Originally Posted by Cycsk

and had to listen to wooooooooooooooo pig sooie all. the. time.

Exactly. If you have a shred of decency about you, that chant will drive the smile far from you.

**dualthreat** · 01-25-2013, 05:55 PM

great resume. looks like a great hire

our o-line will hopefully be more productive in the running game in 2013

**swarthmoreCY** · 01-25-2013, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by RustShack

But its OK in the NFL? When the Chiefs had the best offense in the NFL ten or so years ago, Al Saunders was the OC and ran the passing game, the OL coach was in charge of their running game.

Aka: "It rarely happens in the NFL or any level, but remember that one time something kind of like it worked in the NFL a decade ago, with coaches much better and proven than Mess..it is the perfect model for a struggling ISU offense!"

Comical response, but not sound logic. I'll go with the other 95%. Plus, Mess has nowhere near the qualifications of Saunders, even relatively speaking. Saunders being a co-OC is not saying "if he really listens to his new TE coach on the running game, and his WR coach on the passing game" he may improve enough to get the job done. Oh, yeah, college is not the NFL.

**Dryburn** · 01-25-2013, 07:37 PM

This is a great hire for ISU. Kelnakis was at Nevada when I worked there for a few years in the 90's. I don't remember what his coaching position was, but it was on the offense, and Nevada has always had a pretty potent offense, even before they moved to Division I.

I'm a little surprised he was available. He was at Nevada for a long time, including several years as OC there. When they invented the Pistol offense, I think he was the OL coach. I really thought he would get the head coaching job if he wanted it once Ault left. It would have made perfect sense.

This guy could coach the OL, but I think he would also make a great OC. This is huge for ISU, imo. Hope he stays around for a while.