How patient will you be?

[Tornado man]

Originally Posted by cyclonenum1

It is my understanding that plans were moving forward back then to do this and that Earle leaving after the 78 season was part of the reason they did not continue to move forward. Obviously, we all know what transpired under Duncan, Criner, Walden, and McCarney. I wonder if we could have kept Bruce had we bowled the south endzone in while he was still here?

Earle Bruce sure is loved in Ames more now than back when he was coaching here. That's when I first started going to games with my folks, and fans here were surprised to say the least when Ohio State saw fit to hire him.

[CyValley]

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

Fans' patience isn't what's important because the fans can't change anything. Pollard's patience is what matters. And he can afford to be patient with the basketball program, he can't with football. After all, his plans call for spending money....lots and lots of money. And the only source for that money is the football program. . . .

This seems right on the mark to me (not that I possess a particularly sharp insight). In a discussion about this topic, here are some points I would attempt to make:

> Some see ISU as a "basketball school," but JP and Dr. Geoffrey, teaming up to land Chizik, seemed to be saying the opposite. By making serious commitments to Chizik, seems to me that JP sees the football program as the foundation of what he hopes to do in Ames: get ISU into the top 25 of the annual directors' cup rankings. To achieve this goal much money will be required. How can this be done without a successful football program?

> JP appears to be highly patient with Greg and the MBB. A few weeks before the WJ turmoil, on radio Jamie said he understood the difficulties facing Greg when he accepted the job in April 2006. What surprised me during that interview is that JP said he considers next season (2008-09) Greg's first in Ames. That is, the first two seasons were troubled by situations and circumstances largely beyond Greg's control, JP believes. Agree or disagree with JP's approach, doesn't matter. Clearly, JP is patient with the MBB program, and he's "the decider."

Seems to me that football is the 800-pound gorilla, even at ISU. JTS renovations and additional seating is an investment in future earnings in an area that represents the greatest possible gains (more butts in more seats, an improving program means more TV exposure and revenue, and so on).

Didn't we have a record season-ticket sales in mbb last season? Although butts weren't always in the seats, didn't we average more than 13,000 tickets sold per game (or close to it), pretty near capacity? Isn't revenue growth in mbb pretty limited at this point,then? Although we gotta have it -- and sooner the better -- a basketball practice facility won't generate revenue directly as would/could more seating at JTS.

I might have it all wrong. But right now, sure seems to me (and many others here, I think) that JP is on the correct course.

[bmuff]

I'd consider myself pretty patient. I was sad to see Mac go, but knew from about halfway through the season that it needed to happen. Chizik definitely got a free pass last year. BUT, he has to start beating some teams. First off, there can be no more losing to 1AA teams. I expect them to go 5-7 this season, but would not be totally unhappy with 4-8 if they are competitive in most games. I'd be ecstatic with 6-6 and a bowl. The following season, if they are not bowl eligible, then I will start doubting whether the staff can get it done. I'll always support ISU FB, but it's the momentum that I'm worried about. They cannot let season tickets start to dwindle and fundraising fall off. I'm betting on something like 8-4 in 2009, though. I'm also hoping that we have a new double decker endzone next fall to help spur excitement and sales.

[MontyBurns]

Originally Posted by Aclone

Not true. The basketball program pays for itself--and then some. It also needs to generate enough revenue to support building the new practice arena.

If Hilton were as empty as Carver-Hawkeye was last season, that would be bad. Very bad.

Get your facts straight. In a good year the men's basketball program pays for itself. That's it. It doesn't support other sports or facilities. Football, on the other hand, pays for itself, and in addition, pays for women's basketball, men's and women's cross-country, golf, gymnastics, soccer, softball, swimming and diving, tennis, track & field, and wrestling. Football, not basketball, provides the revenue that makes all the other sports and facilities possible.

[Aclone]

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

Get your facts straight. In a good year the men's basketball program pays for itself. That's it. It doesn't support other sports or facilities. Football, on the other hand, pays for itself, and in addition, pays for women's basketball, men's and women's cross-country, golf, gymnastics, soccer, softball, swimming and diving, tennis, track & field, and wrestling. Football, not basketball, provides the revenue that makes all the other sports and facilities possible.

I'm not the one who'd better get his facts straight. Certainly men's basketball doesn't contribute nearly as much as football to the overall athletic fund, but it more than pays for itself.

And not even football pays for all of it, either. While women's basketball defrays it's expenses better than most other sports, not all funds are generated within the athletic department.

[Aclone]

Originally Posted by Aclone

And not even football pays for all of it, either. While women's basketball defrays it's expenses better than most other sports, not all funds are generated within the athletic department.

Looking through the web, here;s a quote that describes the budget situation--it's dated, and sorry it's Van de Velde, but I'm sute it's still accurate:

Van De Velde said the ISU athletics is about "90 percent self-sufficient." The 90 percent comes from income sources such as ticket sales, conference and NCAA revenue, marketing rights and licensing, and donations, Van De Velde said.

The other 10 percent of athletics funding comes from Iowa State and amounts to about $2.7 million annually, most of which supports women's sports, he said.

No breakdown, especially revenue versus expenses, but our share fo the pie fron Conference Bowl revenues and March Madness (remember that next time some of you root against KU in the Tourney) certainly helps.

Also remember that the new logo will generate a great deal of merchandise sales shortly, not only because it's cool, but shortly noone will want to be seen in the old logo--just because it's not "fresh".

[Stormin]

Originally Posted by Tornado man

Earle Bruce sure is loved in Ames more now than back when he was coaching here. That's when I first started going to games with my folks, and fans here were surprised to say the least when Ohio State saw fit to hire him.

I don't remember Earle Bruce being hated at all. I know sometimes we got a little frustrated with his conservative play calling. But in general, we all liked the direction our program was heading and were not happy to see him go. I remember when Donnie Duncan was hired and many thought it was great because he was an Oklahoma assistant coach. I didn't think he was a great hire and he wasn't. He drove the program down and then left. Then we got Criner who finished us off. In the meantime Iowa got Hayden Fry.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Stormin

I don't remember Earle Bruce being hated at all. I know sometimes we got a little frustrated with his conservative play calling. But in general, we all liked the direction our program was heading and were not happy to see him go. I remember when Donnie Duncan was hired and many thought it was great because he was an Oklahoma assistant coach. I didn't think he was a great hire and he wasn't. He drove the program down and then left. Then we got Criner who finished us off. In the meantime Iowa got Hayden Fry.

There were two distinct periods in Bruce's tenure at Iowa State. He was losing the battle of public support after his 1st 3 years with 4-7 records. This included 1 and 2 win Big 8 seasons with 6th & 7th place finishes. Many were openly questioning if Earle was the right choice to succeed the popular Johnny Majors.

Bruce responded by declaring in the press "I'm going to fight to save my job". A key factor at this point was Earle being selected as an assistant coach on one of the post season all-star squads. He came to the conclusion that he had many guys in Ames with the same talent level that he worked with in the post season all-star game. The difference was in expectations and confidence. He spent the off-season convincing his team that they had what was needed to win. The result was the 3 straight 8 win seasons

[Cyclone711]

I'll be very patient, as I have been my whole life. The only thing that concerns me is the bandwagon fans. Hate them or love them it is only with their support that we get our facility improvements done.

[Phaedrus]

Originally Posted by Stormin

I don't remember Earle Bruce being hated at all. I know sometimes we got a little frustrated with his conservative play calling. But in general, we all liked the direction our program was heading and were not happy to see him go. I remember when Donnie Duncan was hired and many thought it was great because he was an Oklahoma assistant coach. I didn't think he was a great hire and he wasn't. He drove the program down and then left. Then we got Criner who finished us off. In the meantime Iowa got Hayden Fry.

Gee, I seem to remember Earle Bruce being hounded by fans for "not being able to win in November."

In fact, after his third 8 win season, there was lots of public grousing about "not being able to take us to the next level." Of course, Donnie Duncan took us "to the next level" and it wasn't a "higher" level...

Personally, I was patient with Danny Mac, despite seeing some really awful leadership things he did. (I don't know all THAT much about college football, but I recognize a bad leader when I see one...)

What I want to see out of Chizik-coached teams, is a progression of player, coach and team development. I would like to see systems put into place and continually improved. It would be "nice" to see some players get developed. It would be even better to see some assistant coaches get hired to be head coaches out of the program. I'd like to see aggressive mistakes, that are later corrected.

I couldn't care less about scores or W-L records. If Chizik's teams are executing and developing, the W-L record will take care of itself.

[CycloneWarrior]

ku had there year of success. Now that they play Oklahoma,Texas,and Texas a&m they should lose all those. Hahaha
Rock chalk jayhawk K-U F**k Kansas.

[CyValley]

Originally Posted by cyclonedefender

ku had there year of success. Now that they play Oklahoma,Texas,and Texas a&m they should lose all those. Hahaha
Rock chalk jayhawk K-U F**k Kansas.

KU and MU each return 17-18 starters. Personally, I don't make predictions for myself about what will happen in the future because, in my experience, the future seldom unfolds the way one believes it will. (If it did, life would be far too boring to tolerate.)

I don't make bets -- if I did, though, I wouldn't bet against either KU or MU having outstanding seasons in 2008. But, either could fall on its face (uncertainty, one reason not to bet).

When Chizik has his break-through big-time season here (like 11-1), likely everyone outside of Cyclone Country will believe it's a blip, a freak happening, a one-time thing not to be followed-up with meaningful successful seasons. (See: DanMac, year 2000 and after.)

To earn his bona fides, Chiz will have to prove he's not a one-time wonder. Once is an incident; twice, coincidence; thrice is pattern. I ain't betting against Mangino or Pink, but they've got lots to prove.

[MontyBurns]

Mangino rocks.

YouTube - Coach Mark Mangino explodes-ENHANCED...