CBS Dennis Dodd "ISU can't do better than Mac's success"

[jdoggivjc]

Originally Posted by Tornado man

Gene Chizik may wind up having more success than Dan McCarney, or he may have less. I will be in the stands cheering the Cyclones, no matter what.
He will not outwork Mac, though, has no more knowledge of the game than Mac does, and will not be any more of a leader than Mac was. Chizik, though, took over a program much healthier than the disaster Walden left McCarney.
People who criticize him have no idea what it takes at ISU, and have no idea of what Mac did on a daily basis, no matter how loud they scream.

I was as big of a Mac fan as anyone else, and I think he did good things while here, and I do think he pulled this program out of the mud and cleaned it off. But considering his last 5 years here, are you sure you want to say it's MUCH healthier than what Walden left us? Yeah, it's in better shape, but not MUCH better.

I feel a knife in my gut every time I see a criticism of Mac. The reason why is because most of the time I know what is being said is true. The reason why I feel the knife in the gut is because I like the guy. The truth is he was never going to get Cyclone football past mediocre. Mediocre was good for awhile because ISU didn't even have mediocre in the '90s. However, after 2000 and especially after the first half of 2002 we began expecting great, and he could never get us there, even with how bad the Big XII north was from 2004-2006. And 2006 was supposed to be the breakthrough year. We had the offensive weapons with an experienced offensive line and the offense was supposed to be good enough to carry the defense. Too bad, as it turned out, the defense ended up being the strength of the team that year...

[jbhtexas]

Originally Posted by Tornado man

He will not outwork Mac, though, has no more knowledge of the game than Mac does, and will not be any more of a leader than Mac was.

Here's another thing Chizik won't do: continually remind us, until the bitter end, how bad things were when he took over, using it as veiled excuse for why he can't perform.

Originally Posted by Tornado man

Chizik, though, took over a program much healthier than the disaster Walden left McCarney.

Bull manure. But thanks for staying in character. I'm sure no one will be surprised to see a supporter of the previous coach dragging Jim Walden into the argument. Walden hasn't been at ISU for 14 years. Will you guys ever give him a rest?

[Tornado man]

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

I was as big of a Mac fan as anyone else, and I think he did good things while here, and I do think he pulled this program out of the mud and cleaned it off. But considering his last 5 years here, are you sure you want to say it's MUCH healthier than what Walden left us? Yeah, it's in better shape, but not MUCH better.

I feel a knife in my gut every time I see a criticism of Mac. The reason why is because most of the time I know what is being said is true. The reason why I feel the knife in the gut is because I like the guy. The truth is he was never going to get Cyclone football past mediocre. Mediocre was good for awhile because ISU didn't even have mediocre in the '90s. However, after 2000 and especially after the first half of 2002 we began expecting great, and he could never get us there, even with how bad the Big XII north was from 2004-2006. And 2006 was supposed to be the breakthrough year. We had the offensive weapons with an experienced offensive line and the offense was supposed to be good enough to carry the defense. Too bad, as it turned out, the defense ended up being the strength of the team that year...

Our football budget was tiny when Mac came, about $3 mil, by far the smallest in the conference. We had no facilties - terrible weight room, no indoor field, etc. One BIG reason: Walden never really pushed for upgrades, because he hated the expectations and pressure to win that would then come. He loved playing the "poor me" card. Walden had pitiful and small summer camps, because he and his staff like their vacations and didn't want to put the work in. Regarding recruiting in the state, whenever Walden found out that a player they wanted was also recruited by Iowa, they bailed out - cold - figuring they had no chance.
Mac had to fight the apathy, defeatism, upgrade the facilties, change the culture. Walden was a lazy coach. Yeah, things declined the last several years. We were a different program. It looked ugly to me too. But it was light years ahead of where it was when he came. Light years.

[cy1225]

Originally Posted by Tornado man

Gene Chizik may wind up having more success than Dan McCarney, or he may have less. I will be in the stands cheering the Cyclones, no matter what.
He will not outwork Mac, though, has no more knowledge of the game than Mac does, and will not be any more of a leader than Mac was. Chizik, though, took over a program much healthier than the disaster Walden left McCarney.
People who criticize him have no idea what it takes at ISU, and have no idea of what Mac did on a daily basis, no matter how loud they scream.

Excellent post.

As far as 2002 being a disappointment we will when the next time is when ISU defeats Texas Tech, Iowa and Nebraska in the SAME season in football and comes within 6" of defeating #1 Florida State. I will take those kind of seasons anyday.

[CyValley]

Originally Posted by Tornado man

Gene Chizik . . . will not outwork Mac, though, has no more knowledge of the game than Mac does, and will not be any more of a leader than Mac was.

Chizik, though, took over a program much healthier than the disaster Walden left McCarney. People who criticize him have no idea what it takes at ISU, and have no idea of what Mac did on a daily basis, no matter how loud they scream.

I do know this: The two men are not one in the same, regardless if their individual knowledge of the game is similar to one another's. Different personalities, different abilities, different environments in which to conduct their professional business.

Different variables means different outcomes.

Loved Mac; it was time for him to go. It's Gene's turn, we'll find out what we find out.

[jdoggivjc]

Originally Posted by Tornado man

Our football budget was tiny when Mac came, about $3 mil, by far the smallest in the conference. We had no facilties - terrible weight room, no indoor field, etc. One BIG reason: Walden never really pushed for upgrades, because he hated the expectations and pressure to win that would then come. He loved playing the "poor me" card. Walden had pitiful and small summer camps, because he and his staff like their vacations and didn't want to put the work in. Regarding recruiting in the state, whenever Walden found out that a player they wanted was also recruited by Iowa, they bailed out - cold - figuring they had no chance.
Mac had to fight the apathy, defeatism, upgrade the facilties, change the culture. Walden was a lazy coach. Yeah, things declined the last several years. We were a different program. It looked ugly to me too. But it was light years ahead of where it was when he came. Light years.

I agree that the facilities are better now than they were 15 years ago. But the way the last 5 years have gone, it's like large amounts of money had been spent for marginably better results.

I guess you just can't convince me that last year would have been significantly better if McCarney were still head coach. We might have swept the first four games (that period where the players were still trying to learn Chizik's system), but we could very easily have been an 0-fer in the conference. Maybe we would have pulled out K-State, maybe not. But I'm pretty sure Oklahoma and Mizzou would have been blowouts and I don't think we would have come back from that 21-point first half deficit to Colorado. In reality, what's the difference between 3-9 and 5-7? The obvious is 2 more wins and less losses, but we'd still be home for the holidays, and the calls for McCarney's head would have been even louder. Instead we all saw how the program grew after the drubbing we took from Texas. That's something that NEVER happened under McCarney - a drubbing like that usually stayed with us and basically affected the way we played the rest of the season (specifically the 2002, 2005, and 2006 seasons). Instead, the team grew under Chizik's tutelage after that game and we were competitive - and even won a couple of games - until the Kansas game.

[Aclone]

Originally Posted by Tornado man

One BIG reason: Walden never really pushed for upgrades, because he hated the expectations and pressure to win that would then come. He loved playing the "poor me" card. Walden had pitiful and small summer camps, because he and his staff like their vacations and didn't want to put the work in.

I know enough about the situation to call "BS" when I see it, having known a member of Walden's staff. You just trotted out a load of "Urban Legend". The truth of the matter is that Walden was absolutely, completely unprepared for the scale of the job when he arrived in Ames. Yes, I suppose that you can argue that he should have known what he was getting into when he took the job, but the truth is, sometimes you can't see everything except from the inside.

Walden tried to rally support (his "Walden and Orr" ads were classic), and he had far more charisma than any coach the state has seen outside of Hayden Fry. but what my friend told me was that faced with insurmountable barriers, "something just broke" inside of Jim Walden. He didn't have the fortitude to carry on.

That's why I gave Dan McCarney credit. When he arrived, and found out just what kind of a mess he had taken on, he simply gritted his teeth, rolled up his sleeves, and got on with it. Even at the end there was no break in the man.

Sure he made msitakes--grabbing all of those jucos right after the first bowl was one (as Ron Prince is about to find out), letting the offensive line go to wrack and ruin (linked to the juco failure) was the dagger through the heart. Well, that along with his picked placekicker blowing out his knee playing soccer a couple of weeks after signing. But dammit, he went out and improved facilities. He got that indoor practice facility. He took us to nine wins, and bowls, and got himself a really hot second wife (which I might admire most of all).

However, to say what you did about Walden was just entirely unfair (I was acquainted with Max Urick as well). The administration at the time (I was also acquainted with someone in Beardshear) was quite content ignoring sports programs and throwing money elsewhere. It wasn't until regime changes that someone started seeing the benefits of having our athletics teams represent us solidly on a national front.

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

I guess you just can't convince me that last year would have been significantly better if McCarney were still head coach.

I hadn't even thought of this, but the fact remains that virtually every single player on the field in '07, aside from Allen Bell, was a McCarney recruit. But frankly, such speculation is really irrelevant. While I regret McCarney's tenure ending as it did, it's time to look at what Gene Chizik is doing--which is really pretty darn good.

[Tornado man]

Thanks for your response, Aclone - but I have to say I've formed my opinions based on what high school coaches, plus university personnel, have to say about Walden and McCarney and the differences between the two. I also attended football practices of both. There simply was a tremendous difference in the intensity in how the two went about their jobs. Also, ask any Iowa HS coach about how Mac differed from Walden - he'll tell you.
I agree also about Chizik and the promise of things. I am excited - if recruiting can get going.
And, no, we wouldn't have beated Colorado with the program under Mac. A change had to be made. But I am not surprised about the reaction and positive vibes Mac is getting from players and Urban Meyer in Gainesville.

[cyclonenum1]

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

A couple of more facts for you:

56-85 0.397 overall
27-68 0.284 conference

Pretty hard to misperceive that...



If you must know, it is emerging from the sorry state that the previous coach left it in...

Some define this as "unprecidented success"!

[cyclonenum1]

Originally Posted by Bobber

My mistake.

Should have written 3-9 for the overall record. I believe .250 percentage holds.

My point is be careful throwing those stats out. Gene hasn't proven anything yet(and I'm sure he'll be the first to admit it).

Dan McCarney did a lot of good things for ISU despite what a lot of revisionists would like to do(Dart180 and I used to go round and round about that, but came to a truce on that particular topic).

I just don't understand why people want to tear the guy down....

I love how you can just factually state the man's HC record at ISU and you are accused of "tearing him down"...really quite humorous!

[CycloneWanderer]

I would like to point out the statistical difference is that Danny Mac had a .284 conference record over 95 conference games while GC has his .250 in his first season. If we win 3 conference games this year GC will have a higher win % in two years, in conference (.3125), than Mac had his entire career.

these stats can be made to say whatever you want them to.

[kingcy]

There is quite a thread on Coach Mac's time at ISU. He did a good job with what he had and at the time was a great fit for ISU. He brought the fans back and made new ones. He was great a rasing money and during his time at ISU there were great upgades. He was the face of the school for years.

Things that haunted him through his time at ISU
1. He had a hard time winning close games
2. He had a hard time putting teams away
3. He never had a good kicking game
4. He was always so close to greater things but never got there

Why did he keep his job so long? To me there are 4 phases to that

Phase 1. Troy Davis. He got people to come to games and ISU got national press because of how great TD was. TD baught Mac a few more years at ISU due to the fact people were caring about ISU again.

Phase 2. Beating Iowa. Rumor was Mac's future was in doubt until he beat Iowa. That locked him up for a few more years.

Phase 3. Bowl games. The highlight of it all. He never did lead ISU to big bowl games but at the time any bowl games was great to us ISU fans. Also coming so close to a Big 12 North title.

Phase 4. 2003, 2006 and not winning Big 12 north titles. Lets face it as good as the bowl years were 2003 and 2006 were really bad. A lot was questioned about everything around this program. They were not a down or rebuilding year there were a mess, get your butt kicked dont put up a fight. Not winning the titles when they were in view more questions about Mac came up. These 3 things and the questions and doubts that surfaced during and after them are what cost Mac his job at ISU.

Questions for the media that think he is the only one for ISU to think about. Why isnt Mac head coach now? At his time at ISU why didnt bigger schools come calling?

I am and was a Mac fan but at some point there needs to be a change. ISU and Mac were great for each other but it was time for them both to go another way.

[rworkman83]

I was a huge Mac Fan when he was here and I'll still look to see how his teams are doing now and in the future, but why such a long winded thread about how things were now that we are over a year out of having him as our coach? I could see this if it was a few months out, but not this long out.

[kingcy]

Originally Posted by rworkman83

I was a huge Mac Fan when he was here and I'll still look to see how his teams are doing now and in the future, but why such a long winded thread about how things were now that we are over a year out of having him as our coach? I could see this if it was a few months out, but not this long out.

There is a thread about him being the only guy for ISU because of the CBS story. The media loves him and when his name is brought up the ISU story and how great he was at ISU comes up. There is usually someone saying he got a raw deal from ISU. As of how he is the best coach ISU has had that I can remember and I think it is important and interesting to know what went wrong when he was ISUs coach. I know I like to read about past coaches that were around before I really knew it was more than a game. Basically the CBS thread got me to thinking.

[Arkansas]

Originally Posted by cardinal&gold

We stayed there for a week. We beat TTU and then the next Saturday, Oklahoma put our junk in a blender.

Don't remind me....I actually went to Norman to see that game.