Are we the worst team in the history of Big 12/Big 8?

[BvK1126]

The funny thing about "tradition" is that a few really good years -- "remember when" years, as I will call them -- help to whitewash a lot of history of bad football. Iowa is a good example. They've had almost as many really bad seasons (especially the 60's and 70's) as they have good ones. But most Iowa fans still have a clear memory of the Hayden Fry era and that nice little run that Ferentz had from 2002-04. And the history-minded Iowa fan has read all about the glory years of the Evashevski era in the 50's. So, instead of lamenting the equal history of bad years, many Iowa fans wax poetic about the occasional conference championships and All-Americans and measure the stature of the program based on those accomplishments.

Kansas State is probably an even better example. For the better part of 100 years, they were awful -- the worst program in major college history. But then Bill Snyder comes along and works his magic, and suddenly the Wildcats are finishing in the Top 25 every year and competing for conference championships. Now, K-State fans define their program based on the level of success to which Snyder took them. Wildcat fans are now quick to point to the Snyder years to refute the argument that their program is the worst ever in college football.

Even though Iowa State is historically a better program than Kansas State (a .459 all-time winning percentage compared to .433), we don't have nearly as many "remember when" seasons as K-State does, and certainly not as many in recent history. In fact, when you analyze it, Iowa State really hasn't had many "remember when" seasons at all, and even those that we remember fondly don't quite hold up to the glory years of other programs. Iowa State's most notable "remember when" season was probably the 1959 "Dirty Thirty" team. Unfortunately, it says something about the depth of our tradition when the most celebrated team in our program's history went 7-3 and finished tied for third in the conference.

That's not to diminish the accomplishments of the 1959 team or any of the other memorable seasons in Cyclone history. (I still have a soft spot in my heart for the '89 team that finished 4-3 in the Big 8 and had an exciting offense headlined by Blaise Bryant.) It's just obvious that our tradition honestly doesn't stack up to those of any of the other teams in the Big 12, even the least of whom can point to eras of much greater success than anything we've seen consistently in Ames.

So, yes, we may have the worst tradition in the Big 12. Which, as dmcone pointed out earlier in this thread, says something about the character of Iowa State fans. Fans of the rest of the conference teams can ridicule us all they want. Few of them can boast the kind of loyalty and dedication to their teams as we've shown to our Cyclones.

[CycloneWarrior]

Baylor is really good in baseball and their womans basketball team won a national championship a couple years ago

[KneeGusto]

Our football past has had highs, lows, and everything in between.

We've had a few defining moments, a few "statement games" and couple of accomplishments. Probably less than other B8 and B12 schools for the most part - with K-State and Baylor challenging us for frustration historically.

That said...

Every Cyclone victory is therefore more valuable, more party-worthy, and more savored by its fans. We're allowed to enjoy each victory more. I pity the Oklahoma fan that attends a game on Saturday and forgets who they played by Monday. What did they get for their $50 ticket price? Maybe $19 worth of memories?

When ISU pulls one out this year (and they will - just dunno who), what will Joe Cyclone fan get for his $50 ticket? $200 worth of memories?

Honestly, sometimes it is good not to be the traditionally dominatingly successful. Sometimes I think our highs are higher than those from traditional powerhouses, and our lows are dealt with better. Failure sucks and is not acceptable, and neither is mediocrity, but being competitive and losing a game is not a crime.

And when we win a big one - good times never felt so good when you are a Cyclone.

[CyBobby]

[quote=dustinal;650910]


We probably are the worst in the history of the Big 12 North. I might not have argued this a couple of years ago, but Kansas & Missouri's recent success changed things.


I really HATE to ADMIT it...but you could be rite. Since the big 12 was formed we have won less conference championships than what we did in the big 8.(according to jamie pollard)

Well boys you get what you PAY FOR...so if you dont have money dont expect to win much in the big 12...its just a big money game and those with the money win and those that have no money just keep right on a losing!! Reality really Bites!!!

[PolkCityClone]

Originally Posted by CLONE2THEBONE

I was having a discussion with one of my Nebraska friends over the weekend and he argued that we are the worst team in the history of either conference and it's not even close.

I argued with him for a bit and realized that many of the accomplishments I was touting were individual and not team.

Holy crap. Is he right? I started thinking of the schools we've been historically better than or at least on par with.

Texas--No
Oklahoma--No
Nebraska--No
Colorado--No
OK State--No
A&M--No
Texas Tech--No
Kansas--No
K State--No
Mizzou--No

Baylor---??

He says no and that Baylor won their conference a couple times right before joining the Big 12.

Is he wrong? I'd like to believe that he is, but other than Baylor, I can't see how we're even close to the accomplishments of the teams other than Baylor.

Maybe you've all realized this, but I had never really thought of it this way. It's pretty sobering.

Sobering? You must be drunk to see value in this post.

[BvK1126]

Originally Posted by PolkCityClone

Sobering? You must be drunk to see value in this post.

Well, clearly others saw value in it since the thread has generated 65 responses so far...

[MontyBurns]

Originally Posted by CyBobby

Well boys you get what you PAY FOR...so if you dont have money dont expect to win much in the big 12...its just a big money game and those with the money win and those that have no money just keep right on a losing!! Reality really Bites!!!

In other words -- it's all over?

Because as long as the Big 12 revenue sharing from TV contracts & bowl games stays the way it is, Texas & Oklahoma are always going to have so much more money than ISU that the budget comparisons will look like a joke.

[Clonefan94]

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

In other words -- it's all over?

Because as long as the Big 12 revenue sharing from TV contracts & bowl games stays the way it is, Texas & Oklahoma are always going to have so much more money than ISU that the budget comparisons will look like a joke.

Nah, it's just the failsafe argument that some people love to use. They can't bare to face the fact that it's going to take some time to build this program to what we want it to be. Granted, the money is going to have to be there, but, I still don't think $100,000,000 this year would have changed a whole lot. The big thing is, schools like Texas, OU, Nebraska, they got the jump on us when it comes to pouring money into their programs. IT wasn't like all of a sudden, one day, Everyone in Nebraska started pumping money into the program. It took some time. Football was more important to them when it didn't take millions of dollars a day to get a program going. We'll need the money, yes, but to say that because we didn't get an extra $5mil this year is the reason we aren't going to a bowl is absurd. We are at a state right now where it's going to take work on both ends. I'd say the fans are doing a pretty decent job at this point. We are still pretty high on season ticket sales and coming off of a year where we sold the most ever.

Honestly, the fans we need to attract now are the kids. Your not going to attract Grandpa Hawk fan because we win more games or look classier, you need to attract his grandson. One way to do this is by winning. Granted, it's tough to turn a kid from family, but my dad loves Nebraska and I'm an ISU fan. So, yes, it's going to take money, but a large donation right now isn't the answer for more wins now. It's going to take time, desire and patience from both the fans and the Athletic Department.

[KezClone]

This thread carries the stink of loser mentality!

We get this stuff so often from others, do we really have to be so masochistic?

[Clonefan94]

Originally Posted by KezClone

This thread carries the stink of loser mentality!

We get this stuff so often from others, do we really have to be so masochistic?

I would agree to some extent. At the same time, to deny what we have been is really not doing us any favors as well. In some ways, I hope this exposes the mentality that I believe has kept ISU from really getting over the hump. We start off slow, lose a few games and everyone goes back into, "Well, it's ISU" mode. We have to start realizing, things are changing. This is no longer a roll over and die team. We have to stick with them and push this thing over the top. Look what has happened to Mizzu, KU and in the past KState. Seriously, the way I look at it, it's our turn.

[Duff]

Hey Clonely,
Our past is our past. Why don't you just write a check to the athletic department and start looking to the future?