Rule question from todays game

DaddyMac · 10-04-2008, 08:25 PM

How could we be called for illegal formation before we snapped the ball?

I'm not up to speed on all the nuances of this rule. But what could they have called us for as we could've shifted?

1100011CS · 10-04-2008, 08:31 PM

I wondered that myself.

Klonz · 10-04-2008, 08:36 PM

You can't... or aren't supposed to get that penalty until the ball is snapped. I think that is why Chizik was all over the refs demanding an explanation.

ISUAlum2002 · 10-04-2008, 08:40 PM

Yeah, I was wondering this as well, as the formation can be changed to a legal formation before the snap. I think we should go Pinkel and demand an explanation.

Another thing on officiating.....I was at the game and didn't see the replay....but this is two seasons in a row where we have gotten called for holding while on defense when the other team is running the ball. I have watched literally hundreds of hours of college football and I still have yet to see this called in ANY other game I've seen.

cc4td28 · 10-04-2008, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by DaddyMac

How could we be called for illegal formation before we snapped the ball?

I'm not up to speed on all the nuances of this rule. But what could they have called us for as we could've shifted?

That penalty should have been for 12 men in the huddle, I think the ref just blew the announcement. After we broke huddle, one of the WR's ran off the field. I saw it and knew we were going to get flagged. I was wondering if you can call a timeout at that point and get away with it? They obviously knew they had done it when the extra men ran off.

HiltonMagic · 10-04-2008, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by ISUAlum2002

Another thing on officiating.....I was at the game and didn't see the replay....but this is two seasons in a row where we have gotten called for holding while on defense when the other team is running the ball. I have watched literally hundreds of hours of college football and I still have yet to see this called in ANY other game I've seen.

I've seen it before, but only a couple of times. It's very very rare.

DaddyMac · 10-04-2008, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by ISUAlum2002

Yeah, I was wondering this as well, as the formation can be changed to a legal formation before the snap. I think we should go Pinkel and demand an explanation.

Another thing on officiating.....I was at the game and didn't see the replay....but this is two seasons in a row where we have gotten called for holding while on defense when the other team is running the ball. I have watched literally hundreds of hours of college football and I still have yet to see this called in ANY other game I've seen.

I remember that play. It wasn't much of a run. More or less a dive up the middle for 4 or 5.

But the back judge threw the flag INTO the pile and as the tackle was being made. Not sure what he saw in there that would be a hold.

99.9% of defensive holds I see are down field with defenders holding receivers before the ball is thown.

ISUAlum2002 · 10-04-2008, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by cc4td28

That penalty should have been for 12 men in the huddle, I think the ref just blew the announcement. After we broke huddle, one of the WR's ran off the field. I saw it and knew we were going to get flagged. I was wondering if you can call a timeout at that point and get away with it? They obviously knew they had done it when the extra men ran off.

I was going to add this as well. While watching live, I thought we had too many guys in the huddle also. KU got called for the same thing earlier in the game.

hobbsfan27 · 10-04-2008, 08:57 PM

Hmm. saw play and was confused as well.

TykeClone · 10-04-2008, 09:37 PM

on one of ku's kickoffs, the ball fell off of the tee and once it was reset, the kicker kicked the ball without raising his hand to signal the ball was in play. Shouldn't that have ben an offsides or something?
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BigM · 10-04-2008, 10:44 PM

no darks came off the field before we broke the huddle shouldn't have been a penalty

ianoconnor · 10-04-2008, 10:49 PM

The defensive holding on that run play was quite questionable as well.

cyfreddy · 10-04-2008, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by ianoconnor

The defensive holding on that run play was quite questionable as well.

I did not hear who they called holding on. That was the turning point of the game, if I recall that would have made it fourth down.

AnkenyCy24 · 10-04-2008, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by ISUAlum2002

Another thing on officiating.....I was at the game and didn't see the replay....but this is two seasons in a row where we have gotten called for holding while on defense when the other team is running the ball. I have watched literally hundreds of hours of college football and I still have yet to see this called in ANY other game I've seen.

From the official handbook....

b. Defensive players may not use hands and arms to tackle, hold or
otherwise illegally obstruct an opponent other than a runner.
PENALTY—10 yards from the basic spot [S42].

But, I've seen the replays a couple of times now, and really didn't see #81 holding on defense for us. One of our guys dove in, taking out the legs of one of the blockers, but I believe that was Hunley. Seemed like a phantom call to me...

Rogue52 · 10-04-2008, 11:20 PM

Yes, illegal formation before the ball is snapped is bogus.

Defensive holding on a run up the middle is bogus too.

You can assure Chizik made sure the refs heard about it.