Coach Chizik vs Coach Mac

[CrossCyed]

I agree 100%. Coach Chizik has won national title for Texas on the defensive side of game. Where is that defense now? We had the weakest schedule in big 12. We still couldn't produce any wins. I don't see Chizik fired up at any game. He was more fired up last year than this year. where is the fire in these student athletes? What is missing from JP's vision? I just don't get it.

I'm guessing his athletes at Auburn and Texas were a little better.

Mac saw the writing on the wall when Jamie was hired, not many coaches stay around with a new AD. He mailed it in on the recruiting trail his last couple of years and we are paying for it now. Chiz will get things on the right track now...

It really was hurting his last couple years, and a lot of that had to do with the assistants.

Please tell Arnaud, ARob, Frere, Lemaak, Jesse Smith, Taylor and all the other starters that Chizik is depending on that they are part of "bone dry" recruiting classes. I'd like to watch that...

ARob quit under DMac and came back under Chizik, while Jesse Smith was a walkon. Not sure about whether or not Frere walked on or not.

[CloneCubbie]

Or maybe we shouldn't look at what Michigan is doing or not doing and try to win some games.

This is were I think neg rep is appropriate...

[Al_4_State]

This is the only guy that makes any sense. Remember, both of those teams (Cinny and Minny) will not play the level of competition we are playing. I could see ISU being 6-1 or 5-2 with those schedules.

THANK YOU. The Big 10 and Big East both suck. The Big 12 is arguably the best conference in college football. Tim Brewster took over a 6 win team. Brian Kelly took over a 7. Chizik took over a 4 team team that should have been winless. Both Brewster and Kelly inherited more talent against weaker opposition. Apples to Oranges, imo.

[Aclone]

Gene didn't inherit guys named Troy Davis and Oliver Ross on his roster so it should be no huge surprise where ISU is at right now.

Neither did Mac. Ross was his recruit. As a juco defensive end, as a matter of fact. Just like Walden inherited Keith Sims from Criner.

And for another poster, yes, Frere was a scholarship signee.

Chizik started out slightly ahead of where Mac did, in inherited talent (say, twenty Big XII calber players as opposed to 5 D-I caliber), but he also seems to be accumulating better talent at a faster rate. At the same time, the conference is much tougher than the Big 8 was.

[StLouisClone]

Neither did Mac. Ross was his recruit. As a juco defensive end, as a matter of fact. Just like Walden inherited Keith Sims from Criner.

And for another poster, yes, Frere was a scholarship signee.

Chizik started out slightly ahead of where Mac did, in inherited talent (say, twenty Big XII calber players as opposed to 5 D-I caliber), but he also seems to be accumulating better talent at a faster rate. At the same time, the conference is much tougher than the Big 8 was.

I wasn't sure about Ross. Thanks for clarifying. I don't agree about ISU having 20 Big 12 caliber players though. Do you think our starting safeties would even see the two-deeps on any other Big 12 team? I think you could ask the same question about our starting WRs not named RJ Sumrall. I just don't think the talent is there yet. We're really going to miss Taylor and Sumrall next year too.

[BryceC]

This day in age you cannot give a coaching staff 5 years to produce. Those days are gone.

Mizzou and Kansas did. Oops, Mangino and Pinkel should have been fired though.

[CyBobby]

Talk to me in Year 6 of Chizik then. This outta be a fun thread.

U-Gotta-B-Rite.. By the Mac standard it is year 6 but by the CyBob Standard it is year 4...

Both Johnny Majors and Earle Bruce had bowl games in their fourth year and I think that should be the standard that we hold all football coaches & remember what Jamie Pollard said about Dan McCarney....

There wouldn't have been a 5th year if I had been the Athletic Director...quoting Jamie Pollard

[CYKOFAN]

I wouldn't call the Big East a crap conference, it's been pretty good for a few years now with a lot of good teams. I watched West Virginia beat up on Auburn last week, and I remember U-Conn came to Ames and dominated us the year we almost beat Florida State with Seneca. It's a very good conference. It's too early to judge Gene, but somebody brought up the point about Gene being used to having the best athletes as an assistant at Auburn and Texas, and that doesn't necessarily translate into being a good head coach. Donnie Duncan was an excellent assistant coach with great athletes at Oklahoma, but he turned out to be a bad head coach. I'm not saying that's going to happen with Gene but that's why imo it's a bigger risk to hire an assistant from an elite program than a proven head coach at a lesser program.

[Aclone]

... remember what Jamie Pollard said about Dan McCarney....

If Jamie actually said that about McCarney, he did so out of ignorance. The football frogram was in worse shape when Danny Mac walked in the door than when GMac took over, and Pollard has also said that due to the disruptions, he's counting this as McDermott's first year.

[CYKOFAN]

Aclone- I agree 100%. The football program DMac took over was light years worse than the basketball program GMac inherited.

[BryceC]

Please tell Arnaud, ARob, Frere, Lemaak, Jesse Smith, Taylor and all the other starters that Chizik is depending on that they are part of "bone dry" recruiting classes. I'd like to watch that...

Quick example of the bone dry cupboard - Guys signed in the 2006 recruiting class - a whopping 30 dudes. From what I can tell there were four JUCOs - Tibbs, Rubin, Purvis, and Eboh (who never made it on campus.) There rest are all 4 year guys. Of those 26, 13 are no longer on the team or never made it.

The 2005 recruiting class had worse numbers - 27 guys recruited, 7 JUCOs - of the 20 4 year players, only 10 are left. Of those 10 only 6 are in the two deeps and only 3 start.


I wish it were the case but at ISU we just don't get the kind of kids that can come in and compete right away. We need guys to develop and there just aren't the kids in the program now. Those guys from the '05 and '06 classes should be competing for playing time now as RS sophomores and juniors.

The fact is that those classes were filled with JUCO stopgaps and guys that are no longer on the team and now we're seeing the result of that. This program cannot sustain itself on a 50% retention rate of 4 year players and jucos. Few programs can.

If we're still talking about this 2 years from now when it's pretty much Gene's guys and only Gene's guys, I'll be right there on the front lines with you.

[ISUFan22]

Quick example of the bone dry cupboard - Guys signed in the 2006 recruiting class - a whopping 30 dudes. From what I can tell there were four JUCOs - Tibbs, Rubin, Purvis, and Eboh (who never made it on campus.) There rest are all 4 year guys. Of those 26, 13 are no longer on the team or never made it.

The 2005 recruiting class had worse numbers - 27 guys recruited, 7 JUCOs - of the 20 4 year players, only 10 are left. Of those 10 only 6 are in the two deeps and only 3 start.


I wish it were the case but at ISU we just don't get the kind of kids that can come in and compete right away. We need guys to develop and there just aren't the kids in the program now. Those guys from the '05 and '06 classes should be competing for playing time now as RS sophomores and juniors.

The fact is that those classes were filled with JUCO stopgaps and guys that are no longer on the team and now we're seeing the result of that. This program cannot sustain itself on a 50% retention rate of 4 year players and jucos. Few programs can.

If we're still talking about this 2 years from now when it's pretty much Gene's guys and only Gene's guys, I'll be right there on the front lines with you.

Great job of snuffing out this tornado. The national weather service could use someone like you.

[djkent01]

It's too early to judge Gene, but somebody brought up the point about Gene being used to having the best athletes as an assistant at Auburn and Texas, and that doesn't necessarily translate into being a good head coach. Donnie Duncan was an excellent assistant coach with great athletes at Oklahoma, but he turned out to be a bad head coach. I'm not saying that's going to happen with Gene but that's why imo it's a bigger risk to hire an assistant from an elite program than a proven head coach at a lesser program.

I don't disagree with the overall Duncan reference. A couple of big differences though. Duncan came from OU (Barry Switzer) when there were huge scholarship disparities and many would argue the program was undisciplined. I had a friend that played at Dowling and ISU, and he said the Duncan practices were a cakewalk compared to what Jim Williams put them through at Dowling.

Also, Chizik has had to be in programs that were selective about the players (scholarship parity) and he's been able to see first hand what can be developed from a smaller pool of players. I think he knows what he's looking for.

[cybsball20]

Quick example of the bone dry cupboard - Guys signed in the 2006 recruiting class - a whopping 30 dudes. From what I can tell there were four JUCOs - Tibbs, Rubin, Purvis, and Eboh (who never made it on campus.) There rest are all 4 year guys. Of those 26, 13 are no longer on the team or never made it.

The 2005 recruiting class had worse numbers - 27 guys recruited, 7 JUCOs - of the 20 4 year players, only 10 are left. Of those 10 only 6 are in the two deeps and only 3 start.


I wish it were the case but at ISU we just don't get the kind of kids that can come in and compete right away. We need guys to develop and there just aren't the kids in the program now. Those guys from the '05 and '06 classes should be competing for playing time now as RS sophomores and juniors.

The fact is that those classes were filled with JUCO stopgaps and guys that are no longer on the team and now we're seeing the result of that. This program cannot sustain itself on a 50% retention rate of 4 year players and jucos. Few programs can.

If we're still talking about this 2 years from now when it's pretty much Gene's guys and only Gene's guys, I'll be right there on the front lines with you.

Wow, those are some interesting numbers... How has Gene's retention rate been so far? I wonder how many of those Mac recruits that are still here barely see the field? That would cut into the numbers even more...

[djkent01]

Wow, those are some interesting numbers... How has Gene's retention rate been so far? I wonder how many of those Mac recruits that are still here barely see the field? That would cut into the numbers even more...

Agreed. Those numbers are very illuminating.